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kEiThZ said:
I wonder if VIA takes up the opportunity to change service delivery with HFR.

Right now, VIA recommends arriving 30 mins before departure if you have a reservation and 1 hr prior if you don't. Then there's the whole lining up before boarding at the larger terminus stations. And weighing bags...

Most of this isn't really great for the customer experience today. Would be even less sensible for HFR.
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If you arrive 5 minutes before (like I do), they skip the whole bag weighing shenanigans in London (and sometimes Toronto) because they don't want you holding up the train.

At the intermediate stations, just watch tsimobile.viarail.ca and arrive 5 minutes before the train's estimated time so you don't have to sit around doing nothing at the station waiting for a delayed train. Also watch out for delays on other trains going over single track cause those delays cascade.

I think the 30 minute thing is mostly for people who have no idea what they are doing on the off chance they get lost in the station.

Also, I don't get why people wait in line to board anything. I just wait til they make a final boarding call cause it's one less minute I have to spend in a cramped tube or standing in line.
 
littlewill1166 said:
If you arrive 5 minutes before (like I do), they skip the whole bag weighing shenanigans in London (and sometimes Toronto) because they don't want you holding up the train.

At the intermediate stations, just watch tsimobile.viarail.ca and arrive 5 minutes before the train's estimated time so you don't have to sit around doing nothing at the station waiting for a delayed train. Also watch out for delays on other trains going over single track cause those delays cascade.

I think the 30 minute thing is mostly for people who have no idea what they are doing on the off chance they get lost in the station.

Also, I don't get why people wait in line to board anything. I just wait til they make a final boarding call cause it's one less minute I have to spend in a cramped tube or standing in line.
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Yeah in general the boarding at minor stations (Oshawa, Oakville, etc) is fine, you can just show up before departure like a normal train service. But the problem is that the way VIA has organized platform access at major stations (Toronto Union, Montréal Centrale) means that there isn't sufficient vertical circulation capacity to/from the platforms for everyone to arrive 5 minutes before departure like you and I do.
 
roger1818 said:
Why has VIA started weighing carry on bags? Are they afraid the luggage racks will crumple under the weight? Is it that those with heavy bags might need help carrying the bags on and off the train?
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Their job description only requires them to lift 50 pounds.


reaperexpress said:
Yeah in general the boarding at minor stations (Oshawa, Oakville, etc) is fine, you can just show up before departure like a normal train service. But the problem is that the way VIA has organized platform access at major stations (Toronto Union, Montréal Centrale) means that there isn't sufficient vertical circulation capacity to/from the platforms for everyone to arrive 5 minutes before departure like you and I do.
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Boarding doesn't start until 15 minutes before on 71. Yet people start standing in line long before. As long as people keep doing that, I doubt anything is going to change.

Nonetheless, GO and VIA are going to be sharing a platform.


So people might start bypassing the line via the York concourse like they do in the US with Amtrak.

 
reaperexpress said:
Yeah in general the boarding at minor stations (Oshawa, Oakville, etc) is fine, you can just show up before departure like a normal train service. But the problem is that the way VIA has organized platform access at major stations (Toronto Union, Montréal Centrale) means that there isn't sufficient vertical circulation capacity to/from the platforms for everyone to arrive 5 minutes before departure like you and I do.
Click to expand...

Yep. I generally use Guildwood or Oshawa. So this isn't a huge issue for me. And even in Montreal or Ottawa, I never bother waiting in line. I don't see the point when I have a reserved seat. That said, they need to modernize their operations. There's some issues with the whole line up concept at major stations.

The thing is they can't continue this practice when they have a departure every 20-30 minutes in the future. So either it needs to evolve to something like the GO train (open platform access with self-validation and spot checks) or maybe a fare paid zone, like what we see in some countries for individual platforms or the whole train shed. The latter though, becomes difficult at stations where there's platforms shared with other services. So VIA might need a hybrid model of a fare paid zone at major/terminus stations and validation at time of boarding at minor stations.

In any event, I hope they move from the current model. I'd like to get to the point where I can tap my phone/Presto/Opus/ticket on a fare gate and get onto the platform and just walk on to the train. I think this should be service concept goal.
 
littlewill1166 said:
Boarding doesn't start until 15 minutes before on 71. Yet people start standing in line long before. As long as people keep doing that, I doubt anything is going to change.
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The people are just doing what VIA has told them to do. If VIA tells them to wait in the lounge until the platform is announced (i.e. what GO does) people will do that instead.

If VIA wants, it can still have staff on the platform to assist passengers (directions to particular coaches, physical assistance up steps, etc), while the 90% of people who don't need assistance can board in parallel at all doors of the train. Ideally VIA would be included into GO's departure boards (thence "Union Station's departure boards") so passengers entering from any part of the station can make their way directly to the platform once it is announced.
 
kEiThZ said:
In any event, I hope they move from the current model. I'd like to get to the point where I can tap my phone/Presto/Opus/ticket on a fare gate and get onto the platform and just walk on to the train. I think this should be service concept goal.
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The wayfinding in depot, at gate and on the platform should guide you all the way to your car door. Plenty of operators have info screens that show you the consist of the train, which way it’s pointed (is Car 1 at the leading or trailing end? is Business Class on the front or rear?) and where each car door will stop. And all in real time, as opposed to the normal plan on paper but not necessarily the reality on that day.

I can (sort of) understand the need for controlled access to platforms in larger terminals, but making people stand in line is not appropriate and really impacts the user experience. VIA needs to see the opportunity especially in relation to the airport experience - which while dreadful at its worst, can actually be slicker at times.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
The wayfinding in depot, at gate and on the platform should guide you all the way to your car door. Plenty of operators have info screens that show you the consist of the train, which way it’s pointed (is Car 1 at the leading or trailing end? is Business Class on the front or rear?) and where each car door will stop. And all in real time, as opposed to the normal plan on paper but not necessarily the reality on that day.
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Further to this point, here was my experience boarding the ÖBB Nightjet sleeper train at Wien Hauptbahnhof (Vienna Central station) last week.

The train was listed on the departure screens along with everything else (all the way down to local S-Bahn trains). The train was already at the platform when I arrived, as indicated by a white dot on the left side of the screen. The different ends of the train are split up during the night and head to different destinations, so the train is listed twice, with an A-B suffix on the platform number to send Amsterdam-bound passengers toward the appropriate end of the platform.
IMG_20210923_195023937.jpg


On the platform itself there are screens showing the layout of the train (and the following 3 trains on the same platform) This is particularly important in this case since the car numbers are not necessarily in numerical order due to getting rearranged en route.
IMG_20210923_200047074.jpg


In addition to the clear wayfinding, there were many ÖBB staff on the platform to assist customers. I don't have a photo of that so here's a glamour shot of the train awaiting departure.
IMG_20210923_200248547_HDR.jpg
 
crs1026 said:
I can (sort of) understand the need for controlled access to platforms in larger terminals, but making people stand in line is not appropriate and really impacts the user experience. VIA needs to see the opportunity especially in relation to the airport experience - which while dreadful at its worst, can actually be slicker at times.
Click to expand...

From my experience, VIA hasn't ever "required" you to stand in the line (you could equally sit down somewhere and wait for the boarding announcement), it is just something people tend to do, and when others see the line they feel compelled to join the queue.
 
reaperexpress said:
Further to this point, here was my experience boarding the ÖBB Nightjet sleeper train at Wien Hauptbahnhof (Vienna Central station) last week.

The train was listed on the departure screens along with everything else (all the way down to local S-Bahn trains). The train was already at the platform when I arrived, as indicated by a white dot on the left side of the screen. The different ends of the train are split up during the night and head to different destinations, so the train is listed twice, with an A-B suffix on the platform number to send Amsterdam-bound passengers toward the appropriate end of the platform.
View attachment 353507

On the platform itself there are screens showing the layout of the train (and the following 3 trains on the same platform) This is particularly important in this case since the car numbers are not necessarily in numerical order due to getting rearranged en route.
View attachment 353508

In addition to the clear wayfinding, there were many ÖBB staff on the platform to assist customers. I don't have a photo of that so here's a glamour shot of the train awaiting departure.
View attachment 353509
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Thank you for sharing this great European example of a passenger-centric rail hub, but I believe the most important difference between European rail hubs like Wien Hauptbahnhof and North American rail hubs like Toronto Union only becomes clear when you draw the attention at the width of the platforms and of the vertical access (stairs or escalators):

img_7762.jpg

Source: 5TEF4Ns Blog

39546-131241.jpg

Source: Urban Toronto article by Robert Mackenzie


We can laugh all we want about the archaic boarding practices on which VIA insists, but they are a direct consequence of the severe historic underinvestment in rail infrastructure on this continent. If we want passenger-centric boarding processes like across Europe, we'll have to heavily invest into passenger-centric infrastructure first...
 
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Urban Sky said:
....I believe the most important difference between European rail hubs like Wien Hauptbahnhof and North American rail hubs like Toronto Union only becomes clear when you draw the attention at the width of the platforms and of the vertical access (stairs or escalators):
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Urban Sky said:
We can laugh all we want about the archaic boarding practices on which VIA insists, but they are a direct consequence of the severe historic underinvestment in rail infrastructure on this continent. If we want passenger-centric boarding processes like across Europe, we'll have to heavily invest into passenger-centric infrastructure first...
Click to expand...

Interesting point. Could Union work with fewer, but wider platforms?
 
kEiThZ said:
Interesting point. Could Union work with fewer, but wider platforms?
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How long do VIA trains dwell at Union? Instead of killing time at the platform, could they move the train to a layover facility?
There are two passing tracks at the south end of the station, could they use one of those tracks to free up the platform?
Its not like there are that many freight trains that use those tracks on a daily basis.
Or allow VIA to share the Bathurst layover or east layover facilities?
 
Bordercollie said:
How long do VIA trains dwell at Union? Instead of killing time at the platform, could they move the train to a layover facility?
There are two passing tracks at the south end of the station, could they use one of those tracks to free up the platform?
Its not like there are that many freight trains that use those tracks on a daily basis.
Or allow VIA to share the Bathurst layover or east layover facilities?
Click to expand...
Having VIA layover outside the station, but somewhere closer than Mimico, is certainly among the most obvious solutions for minimizing VIA's footprint, but the question is in the end whether the platform tracks or the station throat are the bigger chokepoints:
  • Layover in station: Inbound=>Station=>Outbound is 2 movements (2 revenue, 0 non-revenue)
  • Layover outside station (at GO facility nearby Union Station): Inbound=>Station=>Layover=>Station=>Outbound is 4 movements (2 revenue, 2 non-revenue)
  • Layover on freight tracks: Inbound=>Station=>Station throat=>Layover=>Station throat=>Station=>Outbound is 6 movements (2 revenue, 4 non-revenue)
 
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