[rbt]

You're equating availability and operation cost with operation cost. Who do you think pays for the capital cost for a student traveling to York University? It (and the rolling stock) was debt financed just the same. The levelized cost of availability is just hidden.

In the contract REM costs are forever (inflation adjusted), surviving many many decades after the capital debt is paid down. Capital debt in most systems largely disappears after 30 years, at which point government can afford to do another expansion cycle again, even with high interest rates.

But I addressed that difference already using the 2050 example year. Also addressed how the government can force CDPQ to change the terms of the contract; they don't need to get stuck like Ontario with Highway 407 terms when they realize they're still paying over 50% of their total transit budget (capital + operations) on REM in 2060.

REM as a capital project is awesome. REM as a legal/fiscal structure for implementing transit is one of the worst possible; not a model for other governments (like the federal government) to follow.

 

[TerryJohnson]

How do you account for design choices which reduce costs for the builder but raise costs for the operator, or operational choices which lower costs for the operator (or increase revenue for the operator, like additional frequencies) but raise costs for the maintainer?

Having operations as part of the package aligns the incentives and means the government doesn't have to attempt to optimize ahead of time, or set nearly as extensive provision standards.

This is a fair question, but there would still be a project team at VIA Rail that would draft the 100+ pages of detail that go into an RFP and/or negotiations with shortlisted bidders.

There's nothing the infrastructure provider could do, if they deliver a train path availability based spec, that would significantly vary operating cost because the majority of the operating costs are equipment hours and crew hours.

If I was writing it, the spec would accommodate the service plan already developed, but with future-proofing - for example new structures to be built to double track clearances - or even better costed-out options for additional frequencies.

However, in my model, what happens over at Toronto Union Station - a big negotiation between agencies controlled by two levels of government over platform availability, train paths, dwell times, etc, etc - doesn't bleed into pricing the Havelock to Glen Tay infrastructure. The risk of the government not being able to gets its act together stays with the government, giving the government he incentive to get its act together.

In the menagerie of project risks for HFR as a whole , most of the elephants are "government fails to get its act together about X" which would really worry me if I was trying to write a DBFOM bid because Transport Canada's record is not great. They've failed on track access regulation for decades. Yet the redacted "top risks" section of the JPO report is only half a page, which is less than we see in VIA's corporate reports.

 

[Bordercollie]

This is a fair question, but there would still be a project team at VIA Rail that would draft the 100+ pages of detail that go into an RFP and/or negotiations with shortlisted bidders.

There's nothing the infrastructure provider could do, if they deliver a train path availability based spec, that would significantly vary operating cost because the majority of the operating costs are equipment hours and crew hours.

If I was writing it, the spec would accommodate the service plan already developed, but with future-proofing - for example new structures to be built to double track clearances - or even better costed-out options for additional frequencies.

However, in my model, what happens over at Toronto Union Station - a big negotiation between agencies controlled by two levels of government over platform availability, train paths, dwell times, etc, etc - doesn't bleed into pricing the Havelock to Glen Tay infrastructure. The risk of the government not being able to gets its act together stays with the government, giving the government he incentive to get its act together.

In the menagerie of project risks for HFR as a whole , most of the elephants are "government fails to get its act together about X" which would really worry me if I was trying to write a DBFOM bid because Transport Canada's record is not great. They've failed on track access regulation for decades. Yet the redacted "top risks" section of the JPO report is only half a page, which is less than we see in VIA's corporate reports.

At this point it would be such a faliure if they don't deliver this project.

 

[TerryJohnson]

It's absolutely obscene, especially when considering that the public pays for more than half of the construction costs directly and the operating subsidy payments are guaranteed over a period of - effectively - 198 (!) years...

Even more obscene if we add the opportunity costs, like retiring the MR-90 train fleet early and squandering the only recently opened Mascouche project, let alone what a new tunnel to Parc for HFR and Saint-Jérôme trains would cost.

 

[Darwinkgo]

In the menagerie of project risks for HFR as a whole , most of the elephants are "government fails to get its act together about X" which would really worry me if I was trying to write a DBFOM bid because Transport Canada's record is not great. They've failed on track access regulation for decades. Yet the redacted "top risks" section of the JPO report is only half a page, which is less than we see in VIA's corporate reports.

Yeah, the government won't be able to transfer government risk that is for sure.

f I was writing it, the spec would accommodate the service plan already developed, but with future-proofing

Danger is inflexibility, would never be able to see the innovation we have seen in the Go Expansion award if it is too prescriptive.

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517903054682611716

 

[Bordercollie]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517903054682611716

I think it's supposed to resume in June.

 

[roger1818]

I stumbled across this video apparently filmed today at the Walkley Yard in Ottawa and if you jump to the 0:15 mark, it shows a train with only a cabcar, locomotive and 1 coach from the new fleet.

 

[Bordercollie]

I stumbled across this video apparently filmed today at the Walkley Yard in Ottawa and if you jump to the 0:15 mark, it shows a train with only a cabcar, locomotive and 1 coach from the new fleet.

I thought they are semi permanently coupled together? Could be doing some testing by breaking up the trainset and towing part of it with another train. But then they wouldn't they park it at the station spur track?

 

[APTA-2048]

I thought they are semi permanently coupled together? Could be doing some testing by breaking up the trainset and towing part of it with another train. But then they wouldn't they park it at the station spur track?

Maybe Via’s Venture sets can be broken up. I believe certain Venture sets for Amtrak are able to be broken up and expanded like their Amfleet cars.

 

[roger1818]

I thought they are semi permanently coupled together?

As you said, semi permanently not permanently. They can be uncollected and recouped, it just takes hours, not minutes like the tight-lock couplers used on the LRC and HEP coaches (the Renaissance coaches have a type of semi permanent couplers).

Could be doing some testing by breaking up the trainset and towing part of it with another train. But then they wouldn't they park it at the station spur track?

It must be in preparation of some type of test, but given that it has both a locomotive and a cab car, I doubt if it is a broken train tow test. Maybe they are doing more testing at the NRC and can’t handle a full length train.

 

[crs1026]

It must be in preparation of some type of test, but given that it has both a locomotive and a cab car, I doubt if it is a broken train tow test. Maybe they are doing more testing at the NRC and can’t handle a full length train.

Reported to be headed for the NRC’s cold weather test facility. A single prototype Siemens coach was tested there a while back, but this would be the first test of an “intact” trainset.

- Paul

 

[Undead]

Saw a Via consist on the RH line today going south at Old Cummer GO. Does this happen often?

 

[Voltz]

Saw a Via consist on the RH line today going south at Old Cummer GO. Does this happen often?

The Lakeshore East Go line is closed this weekend for construction, this would be Via diverting because of the closure.

 

[EnviroTO]

I stumbled across this video apparently filmed today at the Walkley Yard in Ottawa and if you jump to the 0:15 mark, it shows a train with only a cabcar, locomotive and 1 coach from the new fleet.

A locomotive with only two cars is the "Sarnia Special"