[smallspy]

I wonder if the VIA Rail Historical Association tried to get this? Or any Canadian museum?

No to both of those. And there is already a Park Car in a Canadian museum - Sibley Park has been at Exporail since 2004.

Those three Park cars were never refurb'd back when the fleet first got HEP - around 1990-92. They sat out of service (in Ottawa, iirc) for many years before VIA finally sold them off as surplus. So they likely didn't turn a wheel after the late 80's. I don't know why those three were omitted from the HEP program - they may have been in the worst shape, or they may have simply been chosen at random because the HEP program and the post-HEP Silver and Blue service plan didn't require as many Park cars going forward.

- Paul

I suspect that their omission from the HEP program was more a function of the fact that they simply were used in service with the other steam-heated equipment right up until they started using the rebuilt HEP-equipped stock - and that there had long been a surplus of Park Cars in the fleet. As far as I can tell, all three were used right until the end of the steam-heated equipment on the Canadian.

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

No to both of those. And there is already a Park Car in a Canadian museum - Sibley Park has been at Exporail since 2004.



I suspect that their omission from the HEP program was more a function of the fact that they simply were used in service with the other steam-heated equipment right up until they started using the rebuilt HEP-equipped stock - and that there had long been a surplus of Park Cars in the fleet. As far as I can tell, all three were used right until the end of the steam-heated equipment on the Canadian.

Dan

Shame, that they could have been used as spares or charter runs.

 

[Urban Sky]

Shame, that they could have been used as spares or charter runs.

According to its website, VIA has 14 Park cars in its current fleet - and that apparently excludes the 4 Prestige Park cars.

With the Ocean permanently operating as a bidirectional service, there are only two services left where these regular Park cars can be deployed sensibly: the Churchill service and the Skeena. Churchill operates with 3 sets (already including one set in maintenance) and Skeena with 2.

Recalling the nature of the Park car (i.e. that only one car per consist can be used for passengers), how could there possibly be a need for a 15th Park car?

 

[Bordercollie]

According to its website, VIA has 14 Park cars in its current fleet - and that apparently excludes the 4 Prestige Park cars.

With the Ocean permanently operating as a bidirectional service, there are only two services left where these regular Park cars can be deployed sensibly: the Churchill service and the Skeena. Churchill operates with 3 sets (already including one set in maintenance) and Skeena with 2.

Recalling the nature of the Park car (i.e. that only one car per consist can be used for passengers), how could there possibly be a need for a 15th Park car?

The ocean situation is more recent, however previous to this new configuration the lack of park cars prevents them from adding any new service's on any of those routes.

 

[Urban Sky]

The ocean situation is more recent, however previous to this new configuration the lack of park cars prevents them from adding any new service's on any of those routes.

According to the 2021 Trackside Guide, the count of 14 Park cars apparently includes those of the Prestige Park cars. Nevertheless, as someone who has helped preparing business cases for service expansions and held responsibility for the allocation of VIA‘s non-corridor HEP fleet during his 6 years at VIA, I somehow suspect that I would have heard if the availability of Park cars (of all car types!) posed a major constraint…

 

[roger1818]

The CPR purchased 18 Park cars, which, according to Wikipedia, are as follows:

CP No.	Via No. (1979)	Via No. (HEP)	Name	Park	Decor	Artist	Notes
15401	15501	—	Algonquin Park	Algonquin Provincial Park	P	A. J. Casson
15402	15502	8702	Assiniboine Park	Assiniboine Provincial Park	O	George Franklin Arbuckle
15403	15503	8703	Banff Park	Banff National Park	P	Charles Comfort
15404	15504	8704	Evangeline Park	private park, now Grand-Pré National Historic Site	O	Harry Leslie Smith
15405	—	—	Fundy Park	Fundy National Park	O	Lawren P. Harris	Wrecked in 1959
15406	15506	8706	Glacier Park	Glacier National Park	P	Adam Sherriff Scott
15407	15507	8707	Kokanee Park	Kokanee Glacier Provincial Park	O	A. Y. Jackson
15408	15508	8708	Kootenay Park	Kootenay National Park	P	George Pepper
15409	15509	8709	Laurentide Park	Laurentides Wildlife Reserve	O	Albert Edward Cloutier
15410	15510	8710	Prince Albert Park	Prince Albert National Park	P	Frederick James Finley
15411	15511	8711	Revelstoke Park	Mount Revelstoke National Park	P	Robert Pilot
15412	15512	—	Riding Mountain Park	Riding Mountain National Park	P	William Arthur Winter
15413	15513	—	Sibley Park	Sibley Provincial Park	O	Yvonne McKague Housser
15414	15514	8714	Strathcona Park	Strathcona Provincial Park	O	Walter J. Phillips
15415	15515	8715	Tremblant Park	Mont-Tremblant National Park	O	Edwin Holgate
15416	15516	8716	Tweedsmuir Park	Tweedsmuir Provincial Park	O	E. J. Hughes
15417	15517	8717	Waterton Park	Waterton Lakes National Park	P	Llewellyn Petley-Jones
15418	15518	8718	Yoho Park	Yoho National Park

As @Urban Sky said, 14 still remain in service. Of the remaining 4, one (Fundy Park) was wrecked in a collision in 1959, and three (Algonquin Park, Sibley Park, and Riding Mountain Park) have been preserved.

 

[reaperexpress]

At 3:22 in this video of the new Siemens trains in service, there's an automated annoucement saying "Pour votre sécurité nous vous demandons de rester assis jusqu'à ce que le train s'immobilise". That frankly seems ridiculous to me.

I guess it wasn't bad enough that VIA has been bringing the boarding hassles of air travel to trains, now they also want to bring the leg cramps of bus travel. I've never heard of a train where people are discouraged from getting out of their seats.

 

[APTA-2048]

At 3:22 in this video of the new Siemens trains in service, there's an automated annoucement saying "Pour votre sécurité nous vous demandons de rester assis jusqu'à ce que le train s'immobilise". That frankly seems ridiculous to me.

I guess it wasn't bad enough that VIA has been bringing the boarding hassles of air travel to trains, now they also want to bring the leg cramps of bus travel. I've never heard of a train where people aren't allowed to wander around.

Is it only when the train is arriving at a station? I can kind of see that. But I hope the new trains come to a stop more smoothly than the old trains.

 

[reaperexpress]

Is it only when the train is arriving at a station? I can kind of see that. But I hope the new trains come to a stop more smoothly than the old trains.

I think it was when the train was arriving at Dorval, but still. If the very sedate deceleration of a VIA train is a problem for standees, then the very concept of a subway train is a non-starter.

 

[roger1818]

At 3:22 in this video of the new Siemens trains in service, there's an automated annoucement saying "Pour votre sécurité nous vous demandons de rester assis jusqu'à ce que le train s'immobilise". That frankly seems ridiculous to me.

I guess it wasn't bad enough that VIA has been bringing the boarding hassles of air travel to trains, now they also want to bring the leg cramps of bus travel. I've never heard of a train where people are discouraged from getting out of their seats.

That announcement isn’t anything new. I have heard it many times on VIA trains over the years. I suspect it’s so that no one can sue VIA if the train lurches when coming to a stop and someone falls and hurts them self. Few people ever listened to the announcement though and it was never enforced..

 

[reaperexpress]

That announcement isn’t anything new. I have heard it many times on VIA trains over the years. I suspect it’s so that no one can sue VIA if the train lurches when coming to a stop and someone falls and hurts them self. Few people ever listened to the announcement though and it was never enforced..

What is it about Via that makes them play this announcement while no other railway does as far as I'm aware? Has GO ever been sued for anything like this? How could you even sue Via for performing a routine stop? Or even an emergency stop?

 

[APTA-2048]

What is it about Via that makes them play this announcement while no other railway does as far as I'm aware? Has GO ever been sued for anything like this? How could you even sue Via for performing a routine stop? Or even an emergency stop?

Maybe there actually was a legal dispute and this was on the advice of lawyers. If I recall correctly, an injury and legal action forced Mississauga Transit to permanently make a few seats on all their buses permanently unusable. However, no other agency in the GTA has gone that far.

 

[crs1026]

The stay-in-your seat announcement thing goes as far back as the LRC banking system, which could behave a bit extremely while going over the ladder tracks at major stations ie Toronto and Montreal. It was mostly aimed at departures and arrivals.

The LRC also was a change in practice in that the narrow aisles and trolley service demanded that people not move car to car. I hope that is less stringently applied in the new fleet with the wider aisles. Even if there is no snack counter, this train is built for more convenient movement through the train.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

The stay-in-your seat announcement thing goes as far back as the LRC banking system, which could behave a bit extremely while going over the ladder tracks at major stations ie Toronto and Montreal. It was mostly aimed at departures and arrivals.

The LRC also was a change in practice in that the narrow aisles and trolley service demanded that people not move car to car. I hope that is less stringently applied in the new fleet with the wider aisles. Even if there is no snack counter, this train is built for more convenient movement through the train.

- Paul

It's actually older than that - it dates back to the TurboTrains. In that case, it was due to the passive banking system, which would even activate over crossovers and ladders at low speed. They simply continued it with the LRCs and on to today.

But yes, it's a pretty standard message.

Dan

 

[reaperexpress]

I don't recall hearing the message before, but I'll take your word for it that it's pre-existing. It sounds like the bigger issue is switches rather than station stops.

It sounds like the message is superfluous for the non-tilting Siemens trains, but if they insist on keeping the message, it should ideally be related to when the train is about to switch tracks, rather than when it's approaching a station. I realize that that's probably not practical to automate with our current line-of-sight signalling system, but once we install some form of ATP, the train would know the current signal indication and it would be possible to play a relevant message when the train receives a diverging indication. That way you wouldn't need to play the message at stations like Dorval where the train just pulls straight in, and you would play the message when the train switches tracks away from a station.

Allowing passengers to get up before the train stops can make a big difference to dwell times. One example comes to mind:

I was on a train heading eastbound toward Toronto, approaching Brampton 20+ minutes late. At this stop, only one group of passengers was alighting and nobody was boarding. A few minutes after the usual 10-minutes to arrival announcement, an attendant informed them personally that the train would be arriving in Brampton in a couple minutes. They didn't say that they should get up, but I'm guessing that was the implication. In any case, the group remained seated until the train came to a complete stop. Then they got up, walked all the way down to the end of the car to collect their bags, and eventually made their way to the door. In total we must have been stopped for over two minutes waiting for these 4 people to exit. If they'd gotten up and collected their bags before the train stopped, we could have been moving again within about 30 seconds.