[Northern Light]

I certainly didn’t expect this kind of carefully nuanced review from someone stuck on a VIA train on December 23, but I believe it might be an interesting addition to the conversation we already had:

Steve Lafleur: There is no obvious scapegoat for Canada’s rail travel woes

thehub.ca

Its not a bad column, and in some respects, illustrates thoughtful fairness; on the other hand, I think it reads a bit too much like an open-ended apologia for what was unquestionably a mishandling of the situation, in at least 2 respects. First and foremost communication to passengers, to stations, to media, to prospective passengers (those waiting for trains not yet cancelled but nowhere near arriving).

Secondly, its very clear that there was, on at least one train, the prospect of a medical emergency and train staff did not contact emergency services, that we do know.

****

There's no question it was a difficult situation, nothing would have made it 'easy' or 'pleasant', but it wasn't handled well. The only sorting on that is the who flubbed and what's to be done about it.

I'll add here, no matter what the sector of government, or the economy, I always evaluate things in a similar manner; 'Its about the results, not the process' The process is often a reason things go wrong, its an excuse, a crutch to fall back on and says 'wasn't my fault'; yes it was; it was your job to change the process, override the process, to 'make it work'.

I think there is a tendency following the type of statement I've made above to say something like 'easy for you to say' or 'would you put your job on the line' or that sorta of thing. So let me answer, 'been there, done that'. At this point, I don't think I'll share all the details of that, except to say, I've never been fired or suspended from any job; notwithstanding standing up to a boss or having rules or policies changed to my liking.

****

Just because you can‘t see certain things doesn’t mean that they were at least attempted. And that‘s in my view the main message from that article: the less you know what happened, the easier it is to throw around with accusations…

You know I agree w/you; BUT.....

The easy way to resolve this is that the VIA CEO should have had a press conference by now, outlining exactly what happened and what's being done about. The silence from the company does not speak well of anyone in senior management.

Andy Byford always set the proper example as CEO of the TTC. If something went wrong and he was in town, he was on the scene as fast as possible. Apologized whether any responsibility lay directly with him, or even the TTC (Union Station floods); always appeared accountable and you always felt his frustration if something wasn't handled the way it should be. That's the right way to handle these things.

 

[MisterF]

I was on a corridor Via train a few years ago that was delayed by several hours because another train hit debris on the tracks and it took that long to clear all the trains that had built up while the mess was cleaned up. At one point we were stopped at a station (I don't remember which one) and they ordered pizza for everyone on board. That being said, it wasn't in the middle of a huge winter storm that paralyzed all the roads in the area, so that may not have been an option during this recent storm. Either way this storm certainly exposed some serious weaknesses with Via Rail and rail travel in general in this country.

This sign has needed replacing for quite some time. View attachment 447379

Others with more experience using international trains can chime in, but I've always found it strange that the departure signs for Via, GO, and UPX are completely separate and don't acknowledge each other. At least from my experience, departure signs in other parts of the world show all trains (national and regional) in a single place. Some have national/mainline trains and regional trains on separate signs right next to each other. Some have different lines or departures with separate signs, again right next to each other. Some have all trains on a big sign but with the different services identified on each departure, like at an airport. But not here. Here we divide GO, UPX, and Via into separate areas and each one has its own signs. When you arrive at the Great Hall you wouldn't even know that GO or UPX exist and that Via's sad little sign shows all the trains that the station offers. It's no wonder that people from out of town are confused about how to get where they're going. Sure, signs in the Great Hall showing all departures would be dominated by regional trains, but I don't see a problem with that. The vast majority of the ridership at Union is on regional trains after all.

 

[Bordercollie]

I was on a corridor Via train a few years ago that was delayed by several hours because another train hit debris on the tracks and it took that long to clear all the trains that had built up while the mess was cleaned up. At one point we were stopped at a station (I don't remember which one) and they ordered pizza for everyone on board. That being said, it wasn't in the middle of a huge winter storm that paralyzed all the roads in the area, so that may not have been an option during this recent storm. Either way this storm certainly exposed some serious weaknesses with Via Rail and rail travel in general in this country.


Others with more experience using international trains can chime in, but I've always found it strange that the departure signs for Via, GO, and UPX are completely separate and don't acknowledge each other. At least from my experience, departure signs in other parts of the world show all trains (national and regional) in a single place. Some have national/mainline trains and regional trains on separate signs right next to each other. Some have different lines or departures with separate signs, again right next to each other. Some have all trains on a big sign but with the different services identified on each departure, like at an airport. But not here. Here we divide GO, UPX, and Via into separate areas and each one has its own signs. When you arrive at the Great Hall you wouldn't even know that GO or UPX exist, just thinking that Via's sad little sign shows all the trains that the station offers. It's no wonder that people from out of town are confused about how to get where they're going. Sure, signs in the Great Hall showing all departures would be dominated by regional trains, but I don't see a problem with that. The vast majority of the ridership at Union is on regional trains after all.

Better signage is for sure a requirement. Even a sign that says departures would be helpful.

And dont even get me started on the boarding process.

 

[MisterF]

c) VIA's boarding policy at Union, to my understanding, is largely predicated on the current narrow platforms. The intention is to widen many Union Platforms as part of the current USEP project. Will VIA change its board policy on corridor trains at the very least, when wide platforms become available?

I'd like to think that Via will change its archaic boarding practices when wider platforms are available. But it's worth noting that Montreal Central Station has wider platforms and they're raised as well. But they still force people to line up like they're boarding a plane. Same with Ottawa, which had one of its platforms rebuilt and raised a few years ago but you still have to stand in a line that wraps around the entire station hall. It's like Via brass are blind to how proper rail systems are run, or they looked at how airports function and learned all the wrong lessons.

 

[Bordercollie]

I'd like to think that Via will change its archaic boarding practices when wider platforms are available. But it's worth noting that Montreal Central Station has wider platforms and they're raised as well. But they still force people to line up like they're boarding a plane. Same with Ottawa, which had one of its platforms rebuilt and raised a few years ago but you still have to stand in a line that wraps around the entire station hall to get on a train. It's like Via brass are blind to how proper rail systems are run, or they looked at how airports function and learned all the wrong lessons.

I'm not sure that there is focus on customer experience at all

 

[smallspy]

You know I agree w/you; BUT.....

The easy way to resolve this is that the VIA CEO should have had a press conference by now, outlining exactly what happened and what's being done about. The silence from the company does not speak well of anyone in senior management.

It would seem that you are not alone in thinking this.

'Unacceptable': Committee chair says Sunwing, Via Rail must answer for holiday mess

The chair of the House of Commons transport committee on Tuesday called for Sunwing Airlines and Via Rail to publicly explain what caused the travel nightmare that plagued thousands of Canadians over the holidays.

www.cp24.com

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

It would seem that you are not alone in thinking this.

'Unacceptable': Committee chair says Sunwing, Via Rail must answer for holiday mess

The chair of the House of Commons transport committee on Tuesday called for Sunwing Airlines and Via Rail to publicly explain what caused the travel nightmare that plagued thousands of Canadians over the holidays.

www.cp24.com

Dan

Sunwing got a ton of funding during the pandemic, and they could have easily booked passengers on other airlines but didn't. Also some passengers were promised a connecting flight from Winnipeg to Saskatoon on WestJet and hotel vouchers but there was none.

 

[littlewill1166]

Andy Byford always set the proper example as CEO of the TTC. If something went wrong and he was in town, he was on the scene as fast as possible. Apologized whether any responsibility lay directly with him, or even the TTC (Union Station floods); always appeared accountable and you always felt his frustration if something wasn't handled the way it should be. That's the right way to handle these things.

Finally, people are starting to see that VIA faces many of the same problems the TTC faces.

 

[dowlingm]

Sunwing got a ton of funding during the pandemic, and they could have easily booked passengers on other airlines but didn't. Also some passengers were promised a connecting flight from Winnipeg to Saskatoon on WestJet and hotel vouchers but there was none.

Not to single out Bordercollie here but any expectation that pandemic money makes any difference around how corporations (and not to single out Sunwing here either) operate has no basis. The government was desperate to avoid sector-wide collapses in certain industries and crippling declines in others. In the case of the airlines, they also needed them not to push back too hard at restrictions on movement and on public health measures like masking. Asking those dollars to also buy niceness wasn't going to happen, and in the case of budget airlines, I think a lot of Canadians would say "what did you think they would do".

VIA on the other hand is a publicly owned entity, albeit operationally independent. They will resist disclosure on the grounds that it will weaken their position vs private competition in buses and airlines, but there is only so much that Parliament should allow it to get away with there.

 

[Bordercollie]

Not to single out Bordercollie here but any expectation that pandemic money makes any difference around how corporations (and not to single out Sunwing here either) operate has no basis. The government was desperate to avoid sector-wide collapses in certain industries and crippling declines in others. In the case of the airlines, they also needed them not to push back too hard at restrictions on movement and on public health measures like masking. Asking those dollars to also buy niceness wasn't going to happen, and in the case of budget airlines, I think a lot of Canadians would say "what did you think they would do".

VIA on the other hand is a publicly owned entity, albeit operationally independent. They will resist disclosure on the grounds that it will weaken their position vs private competition in buses and airlines, but there is only so much that Parliament should allow it to get away with there.

I would say that they like every other airline has an obligation to their passengers. If every airline was having the same operational issue then I wouldn't be so quick to single them out. Porter also got funding and has put it towards buying jets. At least they will be giving air Canada and WestJet a run for their money.

 

[lenaitch]

It is true that airlines have obligations to their passengers, however weak those rules and their enforcement is argued to be, but it has nothing to do with pandemic funding. All sorts of sectors got pandemic funding but it didn't necessarily change their business obligations.

 

[Urban Sky]

I'd like to think that Via will change its archaic boarding practices when wider platforms are available. But it's worth noting that Montreal Central Station has wider platforms and they're raised as well. But they still force people to line up like they're boarding a plane. Same with Ottawa, which had one of its platforms rebuilt and raised a few years ago but you still have to stand in a line that wraps around the entire station hall. It's like Via brass are blind to how proper rail systems are run, or they looked at how airports function and learned all the wrong lessons.

The main constraint at neither station (TRTO, MTRL or OTTW) is platform width, it‘s the insufficient width of the vertical access/egress routes (stairs and escalators), which is of course an indirect consequence of platform width…

 

[crs1026]

The main constraint at neither station (TRTO, MTRL or OTTW) is platform width, it‘s the insufficient width of the vertical access/egress routes (stairs and escalators), which is of course an indirect consequence of platform width…

Can you explain how this constraint makes a lineup necessary or desirable? If access routes to the platform are a choke point, would it not make more sense to grant access to the platforms sooner, so that people can trickle up/down to platform level as they arrive?

Keeping people queued at the gate only exacerbates narrow stairways - by the time the gate is opened, there’s a crowd lined up waiting to plod single-file to the platform. If escalators are involved, and the head of the line stops moving, it’s unsafe. I would have thought lineups are undesirable, let alone unpleasant for the customer.

I would have thought that the underlying concern might be the problem of people attempting to board before the outgoing crew is ready to receive them.…. and/or unable to find their car efficiently……. and wandering along the platform creating needless traffic and feeling lost, or going beyond where they should be eg ends of platforms, crossing tracks, using train doors that were intended to remain closed, etc.

Being an old guy, I can remember the days at Toronto Union when boarding was triggered by the train crew/platform stationmaster signalling to the gateperson downstairs that they were ready to receive passengers…. by turning on the stairwell lights, which could be controlled at top and bottom. When the light came on, it was time to open the gate. No squawking radios required back then.

- Paul

 

[cplchanb]

The main constraint at neither station (TRTO, MTRL or OTTW) is platform width, it‘s the insufficient width of the vertical access/egress routes (stairs and escalators), which is of course an indirect consequence of platform width…

I would say it's more on mentality. JR has plenty of narrow platforms and 10x the crushload yet they seem to get along just fine. If they can do it it should be no problem here.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I'd like to think that Via will change its archaic boarding practices when wider platforms are available. But it's worth noting that Montreal Central Station has wider platforms and they're raised as well. But they still force people to line up like they're boarding a plane. Same with Ottawa, which had one of its platforms rebuilt and raised a few years ago but you still have to stand in a line that wraps around the entire station hall. It's like Via brass are blind to how proper rail systems are run, or they looked at how airports function and learned all the wrong lessons.

I've seen videos of Amtrak doin that too in terminal stations as well, it's an easy way to keep order and check tickets before boarding unlike with a commuter train