[micheal_can]

I think my location is a great example.... If someone said they are going to the train station in Sudbury, I would ask which one or what they were catching. There are 3 within the city proper, of which 2 serve the same route, and the 3rd is inaccessible from the other 2.

In a place like Toronto, They would not say train station as there are countless stations that are train stations

I have friends and family who live in the Ottawa area,and if they say the train station, they mean the main Via station in the city. Due to their disdain of the LRT, if I meant one of those stations, they would correct me with LRT station. However, they may not know which LRT station is the main Via station.

 

[DirectionNorth]

Last time I checked, Ottawa Rail Station was located at the intersection of two of the cuty‘s busiest roadways, the Highway 417 and the Vanier Parkway. If you treat intermodality with the intercity rail station as an afterthought, then naturally ridership will remain well below its potential.

Located right next to a major exit of Highway 417 and only a 5-10 minute LRT ride from downtown, this would have been a prime location for an intercity bus station. Instead, the LRT station was built in a way which made the continuation of such intercity bus services untanable.

I guess that must be why it‘s called „Tremblay“ and situated on the transit map next to two tiny third-order dots labelled „VIA Rail“ and „Park RCGT Parc“.

You may be right that from an Ottawa resident‘s perspective, calling the LRT station serving the rail station after the road it is located rather than the station itself and not trying to integrate it into any other transit networks might make sense, but from the perspective of international tourists, this is an extremely odd decision which you‘ll struggle to find anywhere else on this planet in cities of similar size or importance…

The Central Bus Terminal was closed and demolished well after OLRT was planned and built.

As for intercity bus, this is about the worst possible location for one, even if we consider the "intermodality." With optimal design, how many people are transferring between the bus and train network, even after HxR implementation? Would you see Dorval as the best place for "intermodality" for Montréal? Perhaps we could have all intercity buses run to Oshawa, or Downsview, or Mimico. Think of the intermodality we could have!

Ottawa made the decision to close their downtown terminal in the 1960s. Unless someone reopens it for the cost of billions, intermodal intercity transfers will never be the ideal in Ottawa.

Maybe the term „train station“ is ambiguous, but I would argue that „rail station“ is the generally accepted term to cover intercity and suburban rail stations without including stations which only serve urban rail services such as Metro, LRT or Streetcar.

May I ask you how many „rail stations“ Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Amsterdam or Frankfurt have according to your personal definition? If someone asks you in downtown Toronto where the „rail station“ is, do you point them towards the nearest streetcar stop or Union Station?

Correct, and Ottawa seems to be a very notable and extraordinary exception.

Correct, if a station has a particular name, the transit station will adopt it and where it doesn’t (like in Ottawa) it wouldn‘t and just generically refer to it as something like „rail station“.

Correct, Ottawa‘s VIA Rail station does not have an alternative name and it doesn’t need one, because it clearly is the highest-order station serving the city.

Incorrect, given that there is only one rail station named after the city, there is no need to designate a name to that station. My favorite example is Leeds (where I did my undergrad), which has 15 rail stations within the city proper, but only one station called „Leeds“, which is served by bus stops called „Station“ without causing any confusion woth the other 14 rail stations in the city or the bus station (which is called, well, „Bus Station“):

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View attachment 590882View attachment 590885

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Fully agreed.

I‘m not saying that the City of Ottawa (including, but not limited to: OC Transpo) do nothing to serve the VIA station, but I do maintain that they treat intermodality with intercity passengers at the city‘s second-busiest intercity passenger facility (assuming that only YOW airport is busier, since there is no longer a centralized intercity bus station) as an afterthought.

As @lrt's friend has alluded to, LRT station naming is motivated by many things, but not logic, international conventions or any regards for tourists unfamiliar with the city. For a capital city of a major country, this is a rather pathetic attitude…

You might be surprised at how many people use, or even know of, VIA in the general public ...

I have never heard of a station named "rail station" on a rail transit line. "Ottawa Station," I could see the point, but that's not your argument.

That the station was renamed, after 30+ years of operation as "Train," suggesting that perhaps the City of Ottawa doesn't have a vendetta against VIA, doesn't matter.

 

[micheal_can]

People in Canada do not use the term 'Rail' station. They use the term 'Train' station. They might use 'Via Rail' station. They also use Skytrain station, LRT Station, Go Station,, Subway Station, Metro station, etc, but not Rail station. What Ottawa could have done was simply label their LRT station as Via Rail.

 

[Urban Sky]

The Central Bus Terminal was closed and demolished well after OLRT was planned and

The Central Bus Terminal was a prime example that proximity to downtown is not the most important (let alone: only) criterion to determine the ideal location for an intercity bus terminal, as the integration to the local and urban bus network was really bad.

As for intercity bus, this is about the worst possible location for one, even if we consider the "intermodality." With optimal design, how many people are transferring between the bus and train network, even after HxR implementation?

That obviously depends on the quality of bus services serving the intercity bus station, but given that one of the most important transport policy challenges in this country will be to align and integrate its intercity bus and rail networks. This does not necessitate a joint facility, as Hurdman or Saint-Laurent would still tick the appropriate boxes (convenience of downtown and highway access and ease of transfers to other important modes).

Would you see Dorval as the best place for "intermodality" for Montréal? Perhaps we could have all intercity buses run to Oshawa, or Downsview, or Mimico. Think of the intermodality we could have!

Tremblay LRT station offers downtown access every 5-10 minutes in 5-10 minutes travel time, whereas of all the examples you‘ve listed, not a single one offers anything close to such a convenient downtown connection, which makes me wonder why you would volunteer such obviously nonsensical comparisons.

Ottawa made the decision to close their downtown terminal in the 1960s. Unless someone reopens it for the cost of billions, intermodal intercity transfers will never be the ideal in Ottawa.

Decades of research and best industry practice dictate that any suitable intercity bus terminal in Ottawa must be located at a Confederation line adjacent to the 417 Highway and in close proximity to downtown. What stations other than Hurdman, Tremblay (VIA Rail Station) or Saint-Laurent would tick all these boxes?

You might be surprised at how many people use, or even know of, VIA in the general public ...

Which is why we usually let experts, not the general public or politicians plan transportation networks!

I have never heard of a station named "rail station" on a rail transit line. "Ottawa Station," I could see the point, but that's not your argument.

I‘m agnostic about how the LRT station should be renamed as long as it finally acknowledges the adjacent location of VIA Rail’s Ottawa station. „Tremblay“ is already probably the worst name anyone could have possibly come up with.

Here are three examples of intercity rail stations in Europe which are used by suburban, regional and intercity rail services without any suffixes to the city name and still have appropriately named LRT stations attached:

Example 1:
Network Rail station name: Newcastle
LRT station name: Newcastle Central Station


Example 2:
Network Rail station name: Sheffield
LRT station name: Sheffield Station (Sheffield Hallam Univeristy)


Example 3:
DB InfraGo name: Siegburg/Bonn
LRT station name: Siegburg/Bahn Bahnhof [„rail station“]

That the station was renamed, after 30+ years of operation as "Train," suggesting that perhaps the City of Ottawa doesn't have a vendetta against VIA, doesn't matter.

It suggests the same ignorance of international conventions and confusion of wayfinding with branding which Metrolinx showed when they thought that passengers would intuitively deduce that the „UP“ logo means „trains to downtown“. The difference to OC Transpo is that they eventually corrected their mistake and started to prioritize the needs of visitors unfamiliar with the city and its transportation networks…

 

[DirectionNorth]

The Central Bus Terminal was a prime example that proximity to downtown is not the most important (let alone: only) criterion to determine the ideal location for an intercity bus terminal, as the integration to the local and urban bus network was really bad.

That obviously depends on the quality of bus services serving the intercity bus station, but given that one of the most important transport policy challenges in this country will be to align and integrate its intercity bus and rail networks. This does not necessitate a joint facility, as Hurdman or Saint-Laurent would still tick the appropriate boxes (convenience of downtown and highway access and ease of transfers to other important modes).

Tremblay LRT station offers downtown access every 5-10 minutes in 5-10 minutes travel time, whereas of all the examples you‘ve listed, not a single one offers anything close to such a convenient downtown connection, which makes me wonder why you would volunteer such obvious silly comparisons.

Decades of research and best industry practice dictate that any suitable intercity bus terminal in Ottawa must be located at a Confederation line adjacent to the 417 Highway and in close proximity to downtown. What stations other than Hurdman, Tremblay (VIA Rail Station) or Saint-Laurent would tick all these boxes?

It's more likely that Ottawa doesn't get any intercity terminal at all, and services continue to disperse. I suspect we'll see west end services terminate at Bayshore or Pinecrest in a few years.

A consequence of the total lack of leadership from provincial governments on intercity bus services, but that's the status quo we have.

Which is why we usually let experts, not the general public or politicians plan transportation networks!

Good luck with that, and do come back with a report on how that goes.

I‘m agnostic about how the LRT station should be renamed as long as it finally acknowledges the adjacent location of VIA Rail’s Ottawa station. „Tremblay“ is already probably the worst name anyone could have possibly come up with.

Here are three examples of intercity rail stations in Europe which are used by suburban, regional and intercity rail services without any suffixes to the city name and still have appropriately named LRT stations attached:

Example 1:
Network Rail station name: Newcastle
LRT station name: Newcastle Central Station
View attachment 590948

Example 2:
Network Rail station name: Sheffield
LRT station name: Sheffield Station (Sheffield Hallam Univeristy)
View attachment 590949

Example 3:
DB InfraGo name: Siegburg/Bonn
LRT station name: Siegburg/Bahn Bahnhof [„rail station“]
View attachment 590950

You seemed more concerned with how "Rail Station" or "Train Station" was an internationally used name.

 

[micheal_can]

What is stopping the owners of the Ottawa Train Station from making it also the intercity bus terminal?

 

[nfitz]

Offhand, I don't think I've ever heard the term "rail station" used in a North American context. At the same time though, outside of Ottawa, I can't think of a major city's train station that doesn't have a name.

I'm still disappointed that the LRT stop in Ottawa wasn't named Train Station station.