[Urban Sky]

Just as I want advocates to point to the actual issues I expect Via's communications to do so as well. Claiming that the train was in a remote location is a lie that is presumably intended to deflect blame by making the external factors seem more significant than they actually were. Instead they should be accurately portraying the reasons they didn't send a bus, such as the reasons you described here.

The frustratingly large disconnect between the Operations and Communications departments at VIA is a big reason for why I left VIA, but I believe that Hanlon’s Razor deserves consideration when reading such statements by VIA spokespeople. In my personal experience, they usually act with the best intentions, but not the best information, let alone: any grasp of how a railroad actually operates, especially when unforeseen events happen.

Tom Box routinely documents on Groups.io how information provided by VIA often appears to be provided by people who seem overwhelmed with the subtleties and complexities of what they are talking about, as in his most recent (though possibly not the most relevant) example below:

Last Friday's Ocean detour receives some belated coverage in today's Acadie Nouvelle, a daily newspaper based in Caraquet, NB.

The story says (my translation), "Although the Newcastle section is not known for being particularly fast, the Napadogan-Pelletier route is even less so, which made for a longer trip."

It then quotes Karl Helou, identified as a VIA spokesperson, "We had to slow down considerably. We were going at minimum speeds. It ran at around 16 km/h, so it was slow and that's what caused delays."

That's not correct. As already discussed in this thread, the Napadogan - Pelletier route has higher speed limits and is shorter than the Newcastle - Mont-Joli route, so the detouring Oceans made up significant amounts of time.

#15 had been 5 h late at Moncton, for reasons unrelated to the detour, but was on time at Ste-Foy and Montreal. #14 was more than 2 h early into Moncton and, after waiting for the scheduled Moncton departure time, was on time at Halifax.

Re: Ocean detours on NTR route

groups.io

 

[rbt]

You seem to assume that VIA as a public corporation dependent on government funding has the liberty to spend money at will on whatever it deems to be in its medium-to-long-term interest, as if it was a private company with sufficient backing by its investors. I’m afraid that the reality I saw while working at VIA was fundamentally different from this ideal: I entered VIA believing that CN was its biggest enemy and I left with the realization that that was TC instead…

Not at all. I'm saying they're already taking both a revenue and mind-share hit whether they like it or not; and that cost appears to be a fairly big one. These types of problems will eventually lead to the publicly operated VIA being dissolved. A customer death on a disabled train would likely be an insurmountable hurdle, and that probability increases the more remote/disabled trains they have and the longer they go without rescue.

Even if it requires reducing service levels and increasing ticket prices in the short-term, VIAs long-term survival as a publicly operated crown corp requires some type of non-trivial overhaul to start producing reliable experiences; they don't even need to be good experiences just meet minimum expectations so the terrible press stops. With how they operate today, a P3 firm taking over operations (in the form of high frequency rail) is welcome but I can just as easily see a future government abandoning most (including corridor) rail service in favour of lightly subsidized (during setup period) private battery-electric bus services as an environmentally friendly alternative.


Anecdotally, I'm generally very pro-train for my own travel but over the last 20 years I've gone from being one of VIAs best customers to avoiding them whenever possible.

 

[Allandale25]

Whether or not they thought they could fix the train or tow it does not affect whether the location is remote. Nor does the availability of buses in Québec.

None of the locations where the train stopped were remote or inaccessible. They were all within walking distance from a public roadway crossing, and the location where it stopped longest was directly alongside a public road.

Just as I want advocates to point to the actual issues I expect Via's communications to do so as well. Claiming that the train was in a remote location is a lie that is presumably intended to deflect blame by making the external factors seem more significant than they actually were. Instead they should be accurately portraying the reasons they didn't send a bus, such as the reasons you described here.

Given the time delay, I'm somewhat surprised that no passenger broke the emergency glass or used the doors to exit themselves since they could see the road. When the GO train got stuck in the flood in the Don Valley years ago, I think some passengers swam to shore on their own. I would assume if a passenger on the VIA train did that they may have been fined etc.

 

[Urban Sky]

Given the time delay, I'm somewhat surprised that no passenger broke the emergency glass or used the doors to exit themselves since they could see the road. When the GO train got stuck in the flood in the Don Valley years ago, I think some passengers swam to shore on their own. I would assume if a passenger on the VIA train did that they may have been fined etc.

I assume that passengers are much more likely to act on their own if there is an immediate perceived danger (such as “drowning”), a reasonable hope to make alternative transport arrangements (such as by walking to the next bus or tram stop) without relying on hitchhiking or calling a cab (which may or may not show up) and with the reasonable expectation that the situation will not be resolved for a few more hours (because all that water flooding the line won’t disappear anytime soon) than if stranded in the middle of nowhere without any immediate threat to safety a hundred kilometers away from the destination where the resolution of the mechanical issue may only be a few minutes away…

 

[smallspy]

From the video: "Via claims the area was too remote to bring in shuttle buses".

I beg your unbelievable pardon? The train was only an hour outside Québec City! That's within commuting distance! And it was literally right next to a public road, adjacent to a highway interchange on Autoroute 20! It was pretty much best-case scenario as far as shuttle bus access within the QC-W corridor. If they can't get a shuttle bus to Laurier-Station, then where can they get one??

I have it on good authority that a number of bus companies were called, and all declined to provide service.

I suspect that there are also limits put into place on what can and can't be said publicly about this sort of thing. You don't want to embarrass a potential future dance partner, after all.

Dan

 

[roger1818]

From the video: "Via claims the area was too remote to bring in shuttle buses".

I beg your unbelievable pardon? The train was only an hour outside Québec City! That's within commuting distance! And it was literally right next to a public road, adjacent to a highway interchange on Autoroute 20! It was pretty much best-case scenario as far as shuttle bus access within the QC-W corridor. If they can't get a shuttle bus to Laurier-Station, then where can they get one??

I haven't watched the video yet, but is this a video clip of a VIA Rail representative saying that, or did the reporter claim that VIA claims this? If the latter, I wouldn't trust reporters as far as I could throw them to get their facts straight. It is very likely that the reporter is paraphrasing what VIA actually said, and something got lost in the translation.

 

[lenaitch]

Maybe the problem wasn’t where to send the buses to, but where to get them from? Bus driver shortage is a serious reality in the industry and accepting additional assignments without the necessary time to assess the operational risks on your regular assignments can make any dispatcher reluctant to commit any buses and drivers…

On top of any driver shortages (assuming it exists), companies have to be mindful of the duty/rest hours of the drivers they do have and whether they could legally be called in and, if they could, what impact that would have on the company's regular operations.

Whether or not they thought they could fix the train or tow it does not affect whether the location is remote. Nor does the availability of buses in Québec.

None of the locations where the train stopped were remote or inaccessible. They were all within walking distance from a public roadway crossing, and the location where it stopped longest was directly alongside a public road.

Just as I want advocates to point to the actual issues I expect Via's communications to do so as well. Claiming that the train was in a remote location is a lie that is presumably intended to deflect blame by making the external factors seem more significant than they actually were. Instead they should be accurately portraying the reasons they didn't send a bus, such as the reasons you described here.

But if there is no method of further transport, what is the value of being within walking distance to a road? 'See that road over there? You can try your hand at hitch-hiking.'

I'm reminded of a story I heard at a disaster management conference from the United Airlines 1989 Sioux City Iowa crash where a DC-10 cartwheeled into an adjacent cornfield. Out of the 296 passengers, 194 survived and one reportedly walked away from the scene, across the in-field, into the terminal and tried to book another flight. He was only confronted when a counter agent noticed that he looked disheveled, dazed and smelled slightly of fuel and smoke. Apparently he was a 'travelling salesman' who just wanted to get home.

I agree, this has been sufficiently been beaten to death.

 

[Urban Sky]

On top of any driver shortages (assuming it exists),

The driver shortage in the bus and truck industry is a real problem across the entire country and to the point that both professions now qualify for express visas:

 

[reaperexpress]

But if there is no method of further transport, what is the value of being within walking distance to a road? 'See that road over there? You can try your hand at hitch-hiking.'

The value of reporting accurate information is that it directs public pressure to the actual issues. If people hear "it was too remote" they think "oh too bad Canada is so big", but if they hear "we tried and failed to rent a bus" they think "maybe we should reexamine the mechanism Via has to procure bus services on short notice"

 

[Garuda]

Departing Ottawa Tremblay Station

I like this little detail

Great trip report! Next time you’re on the one that’s stuck for 10 hours please give us a play by play commentary as the train turns into Lord of the Flies.

 

[Urban Sky]

I like this little detail

Thanks for pointing that out!

*removes “thumbs up” underneath trip report*

 

[roger1818]

Thanks for pointing that out!

*removes “thumbs up” underneath trip report*

Agreed,

*adds “thumbs up” underneath trip report*

 

[reaperexpress]

I like this little detail

Great trip report! Next time you’re on the one that’s stuck for 10 hours please give us a play by play commentary as the train turns into Lord of the Flies.

Not quite 10 hours, but on my last trip from Ottawa to Toronto I filmed the full ride from Whitby to Union to document how Metrolinx dispatching was sabotaging our train*, turning what should have been a 25 min trip into a 55 min trip because they stopped the Via train twice to let slower local GO Trains cut in front. I plan to make a real-time documentary with overlay showing the positions of the other trains on the line and the absurdity of their dispatching decisions. But editing a 55-min video will take absolutely bloody forever so it would probably be years before I get around to publishing it.

* I didn't even know that the train would be so brutally delayed by Metrolinx, I just assumed it would be based on previous experience.

 

[Garuda]

Not quite 10 hours, but on my last trip from Ottawa to Toronto I filmed the full ride from Whitby to Union to document how Metrolinx dispatching was sabotaging our train*, turning what should have been a 25 min trip into a 55 min trip because they stopped the Via train twice to let slower local GO Trains cut in front. I plan to make a real-time documentary with overlay showing the positions of the other trains on the line and the absurdity of their dispatching decisions. But editing a 55-min video will take absolutely bloody forever so it would probably be years before I get around to publishing it.

* I didn't even know that the train would be so brutally delayed by Metrolinx, I just assumed it would be based on previous experience.

Have you thought about using my app Vandvoyage.com to show the positions of the trains overtaking?

send me a DM and we can chat about features and things that would help out.

*shameless plug over*

 

[micheal_can]

Sure, but will he also provide the funding and mandate to implement the necessary changes? VIA is not Air Canada, he is the minister directly overseeing VIA and he should ask himself why VIA’s emergency response deficiencies which had become painfully obvious during the Christmas 2022 meltdown were apparently allowed to persist and to create very similar outcomes…

I would expect that all organizations have some sort of emergency fund. Yes,delays due to driver shortages may make the response slower, but if the train can be moved to a station or even to a crossing, getting passengers to their destination, especially along the Corridor should be realistically possible.