[micheal_can]

My latest column:

Resolving problems with northern transportation requires real conversations​

Resolving problems with northern transportation requires real conversations

If you could look into a crystal ball to see into the future, what questions would you want answered relative to how people get from A to B in Northern Ontario? Would you ask what makes for an effi…

northerntracks.blog

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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

You ever ride a bus for 12+ hours, overnight no less? Not only is bus travel uncomfortable for longer distances, but it's subject to the same highway closures as cars are. As mentioned in the UIBC for the Northlander, highways in this region are subject to regular closures due to collisions and...

urbantoronto.ca

 

[reaperexpress]

Interesting that Guildwood is still dropped eastbound but not westbound.
I'm guessing they figure most people who board at Guildwood drive there, and they can easily drive to Oshawa instead, while people going west to Toronto probably need to get out at a place like Guildwood for destination specific reasons as Union is too far away and they would have to backtrack.

• Train 61 Montréal to Toronto: Depart Montréal at 6:45 a.m. (Train will continue to stop in Dorval, Cornwall, Kingston, Belleville, Oshawa, Guildwood)
• Train 69 Montréal to Toronto: Depart Montréal at 4:39 p.m. (Train will continue to stop in Cornwall, Brockville, Kingston, Oshawa, Guildwood).
• Train 60 Toronto to Montréal: Depart Toronto at 6:32 a.m. (Train will stop in Oshawa, Cobourg, Belleville, Kingston, Cornwall, Dorval)
• Train 68 Toronto to Montréal: Depart Toronto at 5:08 p.m. (Train will stop in Oshawa, Cobourg, Belleville, Kingston, Brockville, Cornwall, Dorval)

Whether or not a given train stops in Guildwood has almost nothing to do with demand. Guildwood is in a triple-tracked segment so skipping it allows Via trains to overtake whichever GO train they're stuck behind. If they serve Guildwood, they usually won't be fast enough to reach the end of the triple-tracked segment before Metrolinx reserves the junction for the approaching GO train.

Generally trains stop at Guildwood if the centre track is likely to be unavailable (due to a Via train using it in the opposite direction). They're going to be stuck behind a GO train so they might as well stop and pick up customers while they're waiting. That said, there are some trips that stop there even though the centre track is available.

In my opinion even fewer Via trains should stop at Guildwood, to maximize overtaking opportunities. People from Scarborough and Pickering can take a GO Train to Oshawa which is in the right direction for them anyway

 

[WB62]

I’ve always been curious, do you have these for the entire network?

 

[reaperexpress]

I’ve always been curious, do you have these for the entire network?

No. Just the Kingston subdivision:
https://ontariotrafficman.wordpress.com/2023/05/07/cn-kingston-subdivision-track-map/

 

[roger1818]

Whether or not a given train stops in Guildwood has almost nothing to do with demand. Guildwood is in a triple-tracked segment so skipping it allows Via trains to overtake whichever GO train they're stuck behind. If they serve Guildwood, they usually won't be fast enough to reach the end of the triple-tracked segment before Metrolinx reserves the junction for the approaching GO train.

Generally trains stop at Guildwood if the centre track is likely to be unavailable (due to a Via train using it in the opposite direction). They're going to be stuck behind a GO train so they might as well stop and pick up customers while they're waiting. That said, there are some trips that stop there even though the centre track is available.

In my opinion even fewer Via trains should stop at Guildwood, to maximize overtaking opportunities. People from Scarborough and Pickering can take a GO Train to Oshawa which is in the right direction for them anyway

There are probably a bunch of technical and financial reasons not to, but if the triple track could be extended to Durham Jct, it would make it much easier for VIA trains to not get stuck behind a GO train. It would probably be cheaper just to negotiate a contract with Metrolinx that provides incentives for VIA trains to be given priority though.

 

[dowlingm]

There are probably a bunch of technical and financial reasons not to, but if the triple track could be extended to Durham Jct, it would make it much easier for VIA trains to not get stuck behind a GO train. It would probably be cheaper just to negotiate a contract with Metrolinx that provides incentives for VIA trains to be given priority though.

a bunch of tricky things there -

• increasing throughput and therefore risk at grade crossings particularly near industrial sites, or grade separating them (difficult and expensive)
• two track bridges either side of Rouge Hill
• no easy way to put a 3rd track through Rouge Hill station, and sensitive lands either side
• 2 track overbridge at White's Road and possibly Granite Court

Nothing impossible, just expensive and time consuming. But given VIA would be a significant beneficiary the feds should be contributing - which would be fine if Alto wasn't an excuse to defer federal investment in railtrack.

 

[Bordercollie]

a bunch of tricky things there -

• increasing throughput and therefore risk at grade crossings particularly near industrial sites, or grade separating them (difficult and expensive)
• two track bridges either side of Rouge Hill
• no easy way to put a 3rd track through Rouge Hill station, and sensitive lands either side
• 2 track overbridge at White's Road and possibly Granite Court

Nothing impossible, just expensive and time consuming. But given VIA would be a significant beneficiary the feds should be contributing - which would be fine if Alto wasn't an excuse to defer federal investment in railtrack.

There is a plan to do it though.
Adding track
To increase service on the Lakeshore East Line, a fourth track will be added between the Don Valley and Kennedy Road. GO Expansion will offer more frequent service during middays, evenings, and weekends – giving customers more flexibility to schedule what is most important and everything else in between.

Infrastructure required between Pape Avenue and Kennedy Road includes:

A new fourth track
Grading, retaining walls and culvert extensions to accommodate the fourth track
Danforth Avenue, Warden Avenue and Woodbine Avenue bridge expansions to accommodate the fourth track
Infrastructure from approximately Galloway Road to just east of Rouge Hill GO Station includes:

Construction of a new road-under-rail grade separation at Morningside Avenue, including road and track diversions and utility relocations.
Construction of new grading and drainage for a future third track between Galloway Road and Beechgrove Road.
Expansion of Highland Creek Bridge (2 spans: new north span and new south span)
Construction of new grading and drainage for a future third track between Beechgrove Road and east of Rouge Hill GO Station.
Replacement of Chesterton Shores manhole.

 

[dowlingm]

There is a plan to do it though.
Adding track
To increase service on the Lakeshore East Line, a fourth track will be added between the Don Valley and Kennedy Road. GO Expansion will offer more frequent service during middays, evenings, and weekends – giving customers more flexibility to schedule what is most important and everything else in between.

Infrastructure required between Pape Avenue and Kennedy Road includes:

A new fourth track
Grading, retaining walls and culvert extensions to accommodate the fourth track
Danforth Avenue, Warden Avenue and Woodbine Avenue bridge expansions to accommodate the fourth track
Infrastructure from approximately Galloway Road to just east of Rouge Hill GO Station includes:

Construction of a new road-under-rail grade separation at Morningside Avenue, including road and track diversions and utility relocations.
Construction of new grading and drainage for a future third track between Galloway Road and Beechgrove Road.
Expansion of Highland Creek Bridge (2 spans: new north span and new south span)
Construction of new grading and drainage for a future third track between Beechgrove Road and east of Rouge Hill GO Station.
Replacement of Chesterton Shores manhole.

I shouldn’t have given the impression that there’s no intent to do it, merely that there is a higher degree of difficulty than some other projects, and given the slowdown in construction elsewhere (in some part likely due to budget pressures) we shouldn’t think we will see this soon, not to mention that much of those plans were done when there was more throughout expected from and to Scarborough Junction.

 

[Bordercollie]

I shouldn’t have given the impression that there’s no intent to do it, merely that there is a higher degree of difficulty than some other projects, and given the slowdown in construction elsewhere (in some part likely due to budget pressures) we shouldn’t think we will see this soon, not to mention that much of those plans were done when there was more throughout expected from and to Scarborough Junction.

Do we know how the HSR will get to the new corridor that they are building? Will it use the Kingston sub at all?

 

[dowlingm]

Do we know how the HSR will get to the new corridor that they are building? Will it use the Kingston sub at all?

Not to my knowledge. Personally I think having VIA/Alto-shoreline separated from Alto-HSR to the max extent is good so a single trespasser can’t shut down everything on both routes

 

[reaperexpress]

a bunch of tricky things there -

• increasing throughput and therefore risk at grade crossings particularly near industrial sites, or grade separating them (difficult and expensive)
• two track bridges either side of Rouge Hill
• no easy way to put a 3rd track through Rouge Hill station, and sensitive lands either side
• 2 track overbridge at White's Road and possibly Granite Court

Nothing impossible, just expensive and time consuming. But given VIA would be a significant beneficiary the feds should be contributing - which would be fine if Alto wasn't an excuse to defer federal investment in railtrack.

Metrolinx has been planning to triple-track through Rouge Hill for years, if not decades. In fact it's still on their list of corridor upgrades for Lakeshore East, though based on their recent cuts to GO Expansion I think it's safe to say it won't happen anytime in the forseeable future.

 

[Urban Sky]

Not to my knowledge.

At some point, the plan was to have Alto share tracks with the Stouffville line until it intersects with the Belleville Sub, but I’m not sure what the most recent plans are…

Personally I think having VIA/Alto-shoreline separated from Alto-HSR to the max extent is good so a single trespasser can’t shut down everything on both routes

Correct. Duplication is the most important way to achieve resilience.

 

[reaperexpress]

Via's on-time performance is currently 85%, which is the highest I've seen since the start of CN speed restrictions. Maybe freight traffic is reduced on the long weekend?

22/

 

[Bordercollie]

Via's on-time performance is currently 85%, which is the highest I've seen since the start of CN speed restrictions. Maybe freight traffic is reduced on the long weekend?
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View attachment 68770822/

It's been better since they added the permanent slow orders. It's easier to predict the schedule.

All they did was reflect the actual travel time in the schedule.

 

[micheal_can]

It's been better since they added the permanent slow orders. It's easier to predict the schedule.

All they did was reflect the actual travel time in the schedule.

My 2 cents: it is better to have a schedule that reflects the actual times the train will be there than having an idealized schedule. Doing so takes both the carrier and the user to work together to maintain it through.