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How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 165 73.3%
  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 9 4.0%
  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 23 10.2%
  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 13 5.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 15 6.7%

  • Total voters
    225

innsertnamehere

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I welcome it south of Lake Shore but can't help but wonder what cutting Bay's traffic lanes will do from Lake Shore to Front St will achieve.. just to put in a median? The space under the underpass isn't really needed for pedestrian traffic either right now as most people have excellent room to access where they are going through the two GO concourses on either side.

At the very least it should be widening the sidewalk along the ACC (err.. Scotiabank Arena) to help deal with game time crowds.. It's not a fun experience lining up for security clearance getting into the gates along there right now. I'd be supportive of dropping the double right turn lane there to fix that issue, but beyond that, I just don't see the need to completely screw traffic for marginal, not very useful pedestrian space gains. If you want to reduce crossing distances at Front/Bay, cut the left turn lanes there, especially the NB one, and restrict left turn movements in peak hours at the intersection.

South of Lake Shore Bay St isn't nearly as busy, especially once the Bay St on-ramp is demolished, so a single vehicle lane works better there. I would probably want to keep dedicated left turn lanes though.
 

TheTigerMaster

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I wish we’d use this opportunity to fix Bay Street between Front St and Queen St too. In the pre-COVID times the sidewalks were overloaded with pedestrian traffic, due to people walking between Union Station and King/Queen. There will be even greater pressure on sidewalk capacity with GO Expansion, the Ontario Line and population/office growth funnelling thousand of more pedestrians onto Bay Street at peak hours in the upcoming years.

The street is also rather windy and loud and not particularly comfortable to exist on. This is likely due to all the hard surfaces (skyscrapers, road surface) reflecting the sounds and creating a wind tunnel. The installation of trees would address both issues.

We're fortunate to have a marvellous terminating vista with Old City Hall at the top of the street. With some proper streetscaping, this would be a wonderful view.

Screen Shot 2021-09-29 at 10.44.21 AM.png
 
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TheTigerMaster

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I wish we’d use this opportunity to fix Bay Street between Front St and Queen St too. In the pre-COVID times the sidewalks were overloaded with pedestrian traffic, due to people walking between Union Station and King/Queen. There will be even greater pressure on sidewalk capacity with GO Expansion, the Ontario Line and population/office growth funnelling thousand of more pedestrians onto Bay Street at peak hours in the upcoming years.

The street is also rather windy and loud and not particularly comfortable to exist on. This is likely due to all the hard surfaces (skyscrapers, road surface) reflecting the sounds and creating a wind tunnel. The installation of trees would address both issues.

We're fortunate to have a marvellous terminating vista with Old City Hall at the top of the street. With some proper streetscaping, this would be a wonderful view.

View attachment 352160
Tentatively, I'd suggest removing the transit priority lanes to widen the sidewalks here on both sides. The additional space could also be used for the installation of trees.

This would negatively impact the operation of the 6 Bay bus, however with the Yonge Line, University Line and Ontario Line being providing alternative routes, I'm not convinced that this would be overly detrimental to transit users. Heck, I'd even consider terminating the Bay bus at Queen if that makes route operations more reliable. I can't imagine this route is heavily used between Queen and Front.
 

Dinamo5

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Have they ever considered one way traffic like in Hamilton. That way they can still have 2 lanes of traffic if not possibly 3. Not sure if I am a fan of the La Rambla design, because the one side of the street will get much less foot traffic then the other, and that will affect retail on that side would it not?
Either way those designs are better then the present, and yes we definatley need a main entry boulevard to the waterfront, similar to what places like Montreal have when walking to the waterfront.
 

TheTigerMaster

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The centre median is a bad idea. We know from our experience with University Avenue that the centre median will be a dead zone for pedestrian activity. Nobody will want to hang out between two car lanes (as depicted in the image).

The "West Side Bioscape" concept is preferable, as it provides more space to pedestrians, which will help relieve pedestrian overcrowding in the area around Union Station.

Screen Shot 2021-09-29 at 11.06.34 AM.png
 

drum118

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Going back as far as 2008, it been suggested that Bay St be close south of Queen to traffic to become a Transit/Pedestrians Mall with the streetcar going north to Bloor St.

This means the current loop station would have to be move lower to get under the subway since both are currently the same level.

Where and how do you loop the line at Bloor other than using duel end cars with stub tacks??

Regardless, Bay St needs to be 2 lanes with the curb lane becoming a sidewalk as you have no room to walk north at PM peak time with a wall of Pedestrians heading to Union Station.

Landscaping all north-south streets go back to 2005 or before then in the core.

Far cheaper to put the streetcars on the surface of Bay from QQ to Bloor, but have to deal with Pedestrians at QQ, traffic at Lake Shore and from Front St to Queen.

If Bay is to become 2 lanes, all turns need to be ban as it will back up everything and making TTC bus service a nightmare. Current service is a nightmare as no enforcement of HOV takes place. 99% of all traffic in the HOV lane are illegal drivers.

Not impress with this landscaping plan.

Wonder when the next public meeting will be if the report is to go to council in Nov for approval and funding considering it was to happen a month ago?? We are going to do it this way regardless what the public thinks.
 

drum118

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Not possible with the current crop of politicians and bureaucrats. Maybe by the 22nd or 23rd century.
Not only that, you need to get rid of TTC Service Planning Managers and staff as well the CEO. The manager of service and staff have opposed any idea of taking the streetcar to Bloor as well a number of other location.

Back in 2006 after the LRT EA was approved for the Lake Shore line to Kingston Rd by TTC Commission and council, It was removed unknown to those involved in preparing the Master Transit Plan for the Waterfront by TTC when the province requested the EA broken down into 3 packages.

TTC itself keeps shooting themselves in the foot for better service and system wide.
 

Towered

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Not only that, you need to get rid of TTC Service Planning Managers and staff as well the CEO. The manager of service and staff have opposed any idea of taking the streetcar to Bloor as well a number of other location.

Back in 2006 after the LRT EA was approved for the Lake Shore line to Kingston Rd by TTC Commission and council, It was removed unknown to those involved in preparing the Master Transit Plan for the Waterfront by TTC when the province requested the EA broken down into 3 packages.

TTC itself keeps shooting themselves in the foot for better service and system wide.

Remember the Kingston Rd. BRT EA?? I wonder what ever happened to it...
 

drum118

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What benefits do you see from a Bay streetcar line? Is that route particularly overcrowded?
It becomes the relief line for the Yonge Line from Front to Bloor.

A few ranking management team members thought it was time to bring back the Bay Line as it was a mistake to kill it in the first place.

I would go with the lanes on one side that would be move out to allow for a wider sidewalk than what there now.
 

DirectionNorth

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What benefits do you see from a Bay streetcar line? Is that route particularly overcrowded?
It was the last trolley route to go - the Edmonton cars were kept a year longer on the Bay/Annette route than the others. The TTC clearly thinks that the route has something to it, at least, more than other routes. The Bay bus has a ridership of 10,500 in 2018, from Queen's Quay to Dupont. I think there's potential there.

Downtown Toronto has great E-W local (ie. streetcar) connections. However, outside of Spadina, Roncy, and Bathurst, there aren't really any N-S connections, the subway spacing being too wide. A streetcar down Bay would be local N-S rail transit for the center of the city.
 

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