hw621
Senior Member
It is "damned" streetcar no? Why are we suddenly calling it an LRT now?
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
A streetcar would be an LRV, not LRT. And we've been calling the streetcars LRVs (CLRV and ALRVs) since the late 1970s.
And we've been calling new track in it's own lane LRTs, since they built the original Harbourfont LRT in the 1980s.
Fear not, we'll still call it a streetcar.
ARG1
Senior Member
All Streetcar Projects that operate entirely in dedicated lanes are for all intents and purposes "LRTs", and were called as such during their construction (St. Clair LRT, Harbourfront LRT, etc). In fact, when the Harbourfront Streetcar opened in 1990, it was featured subway map as a rapid transit route, as if it was equivalent to the other Subway Maps, but they removed such designation 6 months later because they realized it was stupid and made no sense.
If only we actually learned from this...
evandyk
Senior Member
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
In all seriousness, it won't do anything of the sort. I'm almost certain that the cost differential between double or single ending an automated vehicle is going to be greater than for a conventional given you will need the full sensor suite at both ends. And in any case, the real argument from the TTC at least publicly has been about internal circulation when they will almost never be using off side doors (frankly I think that one is BS - this is a "we've always done it this way" issue first and foremost).I think it's safe to assume we'll be ordering driverless streetcars before double-ended ones, so we can put this discussion to rest
drum118
Superstar
This message is to provide a brief update for the Waterfront East LRT project.
Following our June 2024 update email, the project team has continued advancing the design of the project following the Notice of Completion for the Transit and Rail Project Assessment Process. The following is a summary of the key updates since then.
On October 30, the Waterfront Design Review Panel (DRP) reviewed the 60% design for a portion of Segment 2 along Queens Quay East. The presentation materials from the DRP are available here, and a video recording of the presentation is available on YouTube.
On November 27, 2024, the DRP reviewed the schematic design for the Yonge Street Slip redesign. The purpose of the DRP review at this stage was to evaluate the schematic design for this portion of the project and give the design team feedback on how the design concept has been refined in response to feedback received through the Transit and Rail Project Assessment Process and in response to the preliminary concept.
The video recording of the DRP meeting will be available online soon. For renderings and more information about the design that was presented to the DRP, please see this blog, Yonge Slip Design Refined to Enable Eastern Waterfront Transit.
A City staff report regarding the Next Phase of Waterfront Revitalization will be presented at the December 10, 2024 Executive Committee meeting. The staff report is available on the City of Toronto’s website. Should the Executive Committee support the staff report, it will then be discussed at the December 2024 City Council meeting.
The report provides an update on recent inter-governmental funding discussions related to the ongoing waterfront revitalization work needed to support infrastructure, housing, transit and public realm on the waterfront. As waterfront transit is a critical component of supporting the rapidly growing eastern waterfront, the report outlines discussions related to the Waterfront East LRT project and refers to upcoming reports in Q1 2025 that will speak to the next steps for the project and ongoing funding discussions.
Additionally, as an immediate step to address urgent challenges, the report requests support to study the option of interim bus lanes on Queens Quay East between Bay Street to Parliament Street. These lanes would utilize existing shoulder and curb lanes without impacting the existing four-lane traffic capacity. This work would not be part of the WELRT project scope but could be an opportunity to address immediate pressures while WELRT design work continues. The report commits to reporting back to Council on this item by Q2 2025.
As mentioned in the report, the Waterfront East LRT team is working towards a report to Executive Committee and City Council in the new year, which will provide an update on the 60% design process.
We look forward to meeting with you in the new year to provide a more detailed project update.
Please get in touch with us if you have any questions or concerns.
Warm Regards,
City of Toronto, TTC and Waterfront Toronto
Following our June 2024 update email, the project team has continued advancing the design of the project following the Notice of Completion for the Transit and Rail Project Assessment Process. The following is a summary of the key updates since then.
On October 30, the Waterfront Design Review Panel (DRP) reviewed the 60% design for a portion of Segment 2 along Queens Quay East. The presentation materials from the DRP are available here, and a video recording of the presentation is available on YouTube.
On November 27, 2024, the DRP reviewed the schematic design for the Yonge Street Slip redesign. The purpose of the DRP review at this stage was to evaluate the schematic design for this portion of the project and give the design team feedback on how the design concept has been refined in response to feedback received through the Transit and Rail Project Assessment Process and in response to the preliminary concept.
The video recording of the DRP meeting will be available online soon. For renderings and more information about the design that was presented to the DRP, please see this blog, Yonge Slip Design Refined to Enable Eastern Waterfront Transit.
A City staff report regarding the Next Phase of Waterfront Revitalization will be presented at the December 10, 2024 Executive Committee meeting. The staff report is available on the City of Toronto’s website. Should the Executive Committee support the staff report, it will then be discussed at the December 2024 City Council meeting.
The report provides an update on recent inter-governmental funding discussions related to the ongoing waterfront revitalization work needed to support infrastructure, housing, transit and public realm on the waterfront. As waterfront transit is a critical component of supporting the rapidly growing eastern waterfront, the report outlines discussions related to the Waterfront East LRT project and refers to upcoming reports in Q1 2025 that will speak to the next steps for the project and ongoing funding discussions.
Additionally, as an immediate step to address urgent challenges, the report requests support to study the option of interim bus lanes on Queens Quay East between Bay Street to Parliament Street. These lanes would utilize existing shoulder and curb lanes without impacting the existing four-lane traffic capacity. This work would not be part of the WELRT project scope but could be an opportunity to address immediate pressures while WELRT design work continues. The report commits to reporting back to Council on this item by Q2 2025.
As mentioned in the report, the Waterfront East LRT team is working towards a report to Executive Committee and City Council in the new year, which will provide an update on the 60% design process.
We look forward to meeting with you in the new year to provide a more detailed project update.
Please get in touch with us if you have any questions or concerns.
Warm Regards,
City of Toronto, TTC and Waterfront Toronto
northyorker1
New Member
A report about a report about a report about a report. The LRT is so urgent and important that it won't be coming before 2040! What a joke.
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
After only 20 years, already at 60%, mirabile dictu. I guess construction is pencilled in for 2036.
Amare
Senior Member
Knowing the way this city functions; by the time they want to start construction and find funding, the designs will probably need to be refreshed again. Leading to more cost escalations and thus the same song and dance we've seen for the past how many decades now.
Northern Light
Superstar
I feel like not everyone's education allows for a swift understanding of your fine use of Latin.......... LOL
Literally Mirabile Dictu means Wonderful To Say.
For the typical, English speaker, the translated sentence would really read;
*****
"After only 20 years?....... Wonderful!
........... I guess construction is penciled for 2036."Toronto1834
Active Member
Here's a surprise. Dedicated bus lanes to be installed on Queens Quay from Bay to Parliament in Q2 2025. Going to Executive Committee tomorrow. Really exciting and needed interim measure. Jarvis to Bay in particular is literal gridlock at times. https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2024.EX19.2
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Would a Bay Street section be a likely prospal too or is that unlikely due to a larger traffic impact? Will be even more useful in the future during the Union and Queens Quay construction though.
Edit: Read the report and Queens Quay lanes won't affect motor traffic lanes at all.
Jeff Morgan
Active Member
I believe the proposal is to conduct a study that should be concluded by Q2 2025.
Toronto1834
Active Member
P. 30
"TTC and Transportation Services staff are exploring this low cost and near-term implementation through re-designation of existing road space, targeting implementation for Q2 2025."
DSC
Superstar
This was passed by Council yesterday. It MAY help the LRT funding.
That:
1. City Council direct the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning, the Executive Director, Development Review and the City Solicitor to work with Waterfront Toronto, CreateTO and other City Divisions to explore opportunities to add additional density on public lands in Ookwemin Minising and adjacent precincts in support of additional housing, all in keeping with the principles established in the updated policies and Precinct Plan adopted by City Council in Item 2024.PH13.2, and report back to the Planning and Housing Committee with any recommended opportunities by the fourth quarter of 2025.
2. City Council direct the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning, the Executive Director, Development Review and the City Solicitor to explore opportunities and tools for securing public benefits such as affordable housing delivery for any additional density that is secured on private lands in proximity to public lands, and report back to the Planning and Housing Committee with any recommended opportunities and tools by the fourth quarter of 2025.
3. City Council commit to the principle of using value from any additional density that is a result of Recommendation 1 to reinvest into further phases of waterfront revitalization, to offset the future capital costs of transit, including the waterfront Light Rail Transit, housing enabling infrastructure and other infrastructure in the central eastern waterfront.
From https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2024.EX19.2
Motions (City Council)
1 - Motion to Amend Item (Additional) moved by Councillor Paula Fletcher (Carried)That:
1. City Council direct the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning, the Executive Director, Development Review and the City Solicitor to work with Waterfront Toronto, CreateTO and other City Divisions to explore opportunities to add additional density on public lands in Ookwemin Minising and adjacent precincts in support of additional housing, all in keeping with the principles established in the updated policies and Precinct Plan adopted by City Council in Item 2024.PH13.2, and report back to the Planning and Housing Committee with any recommended opportunities by the fourth quarter of 2025.
2. City Council direct the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning, the Executive Director, Development Review and the City Solicitor to explore opportunities and tools for securing public benefits such as affordable housing delivery for any additional density that is secured on private lands in proximity to public lands, and report back to the Planning and Housing Committee with any recommended opportunities and tools by the fourth quarter of 2025.
3. City Council commit to the principle of using value from any additional density that is a result of Recommendation 1 to reinvest into further phases of waterfront revitalization, to offset the future capital costs of transit, including the waterfront Light Rail Transit, housing enabling infrastructure and other infrastructure in the central eastern waterfront.
From https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2024.EX19.2