[Vortex112]

Anyone know if this line will be implemented with dual point switches?

 

[Archii]

Wish I knew. Better yet, when's a reporter going to ask a TTC spokesperson during a live press conference how many slow zones the line will have from day 1 and what, if anything, the TTC is doing to prevent them.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Wish I knew. Better yet, when's a reporter going to ask a TTC spokesperson during a live press conference how many slow zones the line will have from day 1 and what, if anything, the TTC is doing to prevent them.

You mean "slow zones" are not normal?

 

[Archii]

You mean "slow zones" are not normal?

Who would have thunk, eh?

 

[urbanclient]

You mean "slow zones" are not normal?

Don't give them ideas, next thing you know, they'll be calling them "normal zones". Everything else will be a "fast zone".

 

[DSCToronto]

Time to get this thread back from its diversion, please!

 

[GameOnBrad]

Yes, once it is built it will become the 507 or whatever number (or letter) designation it gets.

I supposed the plan would be to run the Harbourfront line all the way across with the loop at Union as just part of the same line? Otherwise, I guess an alternative solution would be "509 Harbourfront West" and "509 Harbourfront East", if they want to keep them separate.

 

[DSCToronto]

I supposed the plan would be to run the Harbourfront line all the way across with the loop at Union as just part of the same line? Otherwise, I guess an alternative solution would be "509 Harbourfront West" and "509 Harbourfront East", if they want to keep them separate.

I think the thought is that customers do not really want to go from Cherry to Bathurst but really want to access subway at Union. For that reason, I think most (maybe all) streetcars will go via Union loop.

 

[GameOnBrad]

There is lots of info about how the proposed streetcar tracks can go through the rail berm at Cherry on WT website (or used to be). There will be a new tunnel and there will not be loop there for a start. (For what it's worth, I have never seen the road there flooded either.)

@xmyth_ They will definitely need to build a new tunnel for sure. There is not enough room to wedge streetcar lanes into the existing tunnel.

I wonder, despite the housing situation, if Oak House is being held up by the Ontario Line Construction and the Waterfront East LRT Phase 2 plans for the King/Cherry Loop.

Taken today, facing south from Mill Street with the Cherry Street Loop on the left.

 

[adys123]

The plan as currently envisioned would see separate services on Waterfront West and East with services terminating at Union Station. While a through running service is not precluded, ridership is geared towards Union Station.

 

[DSCToronto]

The plan as currently envisioned would see separate services on Waterfront West and East with services terminating at Union Station. While a through running service is not precluded, ridership is geared towards Union Station.

Last i heard it was not 100% sure they would have a Y junction at Queen's Quay with a 'straight-through' option due to engineering complications but it would clearly be best to have one as it would allow much greater flexibility.

 

[ssiguy2]

This line really does exemplify why Toronto has such a small rapid transit system for it's size. $3 billion for a 4km streetcar is nothing short of obscene. Let's say it costs $500 million to make the connection at Union, where are they spending the other $2.5 billion?

Also, what exactly is this line going to be able to do that a double articulated bus can't? It's not like this line is going to be rapid transit, it's just a streetcar in it's own ROW. Just because a vehicle has steel wheels doesn't mean it's fast, just go ask the people in NW Toronto that about their "rapid transit" LRT. Why would this be any different? Wasn't it Einstein who said "the definition of stupid is trying something once and it doesn't work and then trying it again and hoping for a different result"?

This kind of money could easily connect Sheppard station and Sheppard West or buy an entire fleet of BEMU for GO serving thousands of more destinations, hundreds of thousands of more passengers, and millions of more people and still have lots of money left over for a complete BRT ROW.

This really is a shocking misallocation of precious transit funds and after it's all said and done, all Torontonians are going to get is stub of a Finch line while Montreal is getting 64km of automated true rapid transit for just $8 billion. That should put into perspective how ridiculous this is.

 

[nfitz]

This line really does exemplify why Toronto has such a small rapid transit system for it's size. $3 billion for a 4km streetcar is nothing short of obscene. Let's say it costs $500 million to make the connection at Union, where are they spending the other $2.5 billion?

Most of it isn't going to the Union connection (south of Queens Quay station) but a massive rebuild of TTC Union Station south of the new subway platform, including double-tracking the streetcar loop; it will be more like (the non-storage portion of) Exhibition loop by the time they finish. And will have 4-5 entrances rather than the one that is thre now (providing additional entrances to the subway itself). The other big ticket item is the new underpass for the Cherry streetcar, just east of the existing road tunnel.

 

[ssiguy2]

^^^ But again, this begs the question..........what is this line going to do that a bi-articulated bus can't do in it's own ROW? If this line needs a complete re-work of Union then it's not worth it. In nearly every other city on the planet, they could build a 4km subway at this price with a billion left to spare. I am NOT saying that Toronto will not need superior transit to serve this area but not at any price.

Gov't spending is all about priorities. You have X amount of dollars so you spend it where you will get the most bang for your buck. Is this little line worth not bringing electrified GO to hundreds of thousands of more passengers or building 100s of KM of BRT lanes serving every area of the city and not just the precious few who can afford to live at the Waterfront? How can Toronto complain they have no money to upgrade their antiquated switching system on it's current large streetcar system when they are blowing $3 billion for a 4 km line?

There is no way, in hell, that this line should be coming in at even half this price and if they got someone to come over to Europe to build it, it wouldn't even be a third the price. Transit should be viewed as any other infrastructure project and determine it's worth on a cost-benefit analysis and the benefits received against the money spent on this project simple cannot be justified.

 

[ward10]

what is this line going to do that a bi-articulated bus can't do in it's own ROW

My sense is that politicians at all levels would rather spend $3B than be responsible for removing a lane of Bay Street for motorists. Simple as that. You need a way to connect a waterfront transit line to the subway and GO networks - and in terms of finding efficiencies, the streetcar tunnel already exists as a starting point

You have X amount of dollars so you spend it where you will get the most bang for your buck. Is this little line worth not bringing electrified GO to hundreds of thousands of more passengers

The province has already spent 14 Billion on GO expansion. I have no idea what taxpayers have received for that outlay. Apparently it wasn't enough for electrification. Costs are out of control everywhere