jordanmkasla2009
Active Member
Once the the transit portion of the Transit Hub project is complete Charles Terminal will be completely decommissioned and likely demolished and replaced with a mixed use development of some sorts.
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nfitz
Superstar
Ultimately, that makes sense. Looking at the proposed changes to the bus routes, it's usage will drop significantly soon.
I'm still puzzled by the day one implementation regarding the GO/VIA station. Used to be that you walked off of the train station onto Weber and caught a bus there, or walked along and caught something at Victoria and King. With the new underpass at Weber, you can't walk there any more. And there doesn't even look to be a sidewalk along Weber into the station. You have to walk half-way along the block to Ahrens, and then walk through the parking lot? Am I missing something, it seems absurdly pedestrian unfriendly - even compared to what it was historically!
Are they planning to add a better walking connection, or some kind of shuttle bus, until (if) they move the train station? Though looking in streetview, I don't see anything that stops you walking along the rail corridor to Duke - which would be the fastest from the end of the train.
KevinT
Active Member
The transit hub (i.e. new train station) is going ahead, "with construction on the transit hub expected to be completed in late 2021 or early 2022 " according to:
The Record: Region taking on construction of transit terminal portion of hub in downtown Kitchener
The partnership with private developers for a combined retail + transit project has failed (queue tiny violins for Doug Ford), so the region is going it alone on the transit-only portion of the hub so we can get something without much additional delay.
In the meantime it's about a 5 minute walk from the station to ION's Central Station at the King/Victoria corner. (I still dream of the day they rename it to Berlin HBF, or at least commission an artist to paint a Berlin HBF themed mural at the King Street grade separation.)
The number 6, 34, and 204 iXpress buses also run that stretch of Victoria street. I wouldn't pay bus fare for two blocks, but of course if you're transferring to/from ION anyway it's a moot point. There's a bit of a demand path from the Weber end of the station platform to the Weber/Victoria corner, it's a shame they haven't taken any steps to formalize this with pavement, especially now with an iXpress shelter sitting right there on the northeast corner. (Or perhaps they have and its just not in street view yet.)
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Northern Light
Superstar
It would be; I certainly don't favour blasting new roads across natural areas; I could live with demo'ing a few dozen homes.....
But I can see how challenging it would be to grid-up more roads in K-W.......still, I confess, I've rarely seen more squiggly roads for no 'apparent' reason......
I have no idea what the planners had against straight lines.
University Avenue is just bizarre, its a N-S road, then an E-W road, then a N-S road, then an E-W road......zigzagging at an angle across town......
I would argue its rightly 4 different roads, I would argue the southerly E-W alignment should be Glasgow; the upper E-W section should be extended to Erbsville; I have no clue what to with the angled bit.........while the easterly portion (N-S) should probably go to Bridge Street.
I can't make heads or tails of what they were trying to do.......unless the goal was building a maze.
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nfitz
Superstar
I was asking about day one operations. Also elsewhere, the 2021/2022 seemed to be for phase 1. I thought that was the bus terminal, not the new GO station.
If you walk along the tracks, it's about a half-kilometre from Weber, so yes, about 5 minutes if you don't have traffic lights. But since last time I've walked it, they've reconfigured so you can't exit the rail platform onto Weber, and you appear to have to walk 100 metres further east on Victoria to the pedestrian path to the train station. Google is saying 8 minutes - and I remember some long waits for the lights at Weber and Duke when I used to walk it (many years ago).
Yeah, that baffled me looking at the air photos - including the August 2018 one in Google Earth!
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
I swear this city's road network was created by a guy who ate a bunch of spaghetti too quickly then vomited onto a sheet of paper and called it the map of Waterloo.
steveintoronto
Superstar
^ I'm glad it's not just me! I was living in Guelph for five+ years, and often cycled over to K/W to 'get a feel for the place', complete sets of maps on hand (including survey and geographical ones), and I'd spend perhaps half hour max most times, then pick the most direct way out of town in exasperation...and even that was a challenge. I'd love to cycle through K/W more, but even the Iron Horse and other trails dump you in areas with no rational way out. It makes London and Paris appear sensible in comparison. If the goal is to do a distant cycle trip, be prepared to take a bus across K/W, or you'll spend the day trying to get out.
I did figure out a way once to the south, on a bridge over the 401 and eventually down to Cambridge on the west side of the Grand River (even Cambridge can be a challenge due to the nasty roads) and the trail to Hamilton, but it ate up valuable hours doing it.
I've talked to many people, and they all agree, it's not easy to navigate. And they've lived there all their lives!
I did figure out a way once to the south, on a bridge over the 401 and eventually down to Cambridge on the west side of the Grand River (even Cambridge can be a challenge due to the nasty roads) and the trail to Hamilton, but it ate up valuable hours doing it.
I've talked to many people, and they all agree, it's not easy to navigate. And they've lived there all their lives!
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
Personally, I find it very easy to navigate once you get to know the streets and the destinations they serve. ie Lexington-Columbia: East side neighborhoods, Waterloo CI, UW, CLV, Sobeys, Clair Hills, University: RIM buildings, RIM Park, Conestoga Parkway, Conestoga College, Laurier, Waterloo, The Boardwalk, Weber: St Jacobs to Downtown bypassing Uptown, King Street: Conestoga Mall to Downtown via Uptown.
For a newcomer though, it's really difficult to get around, for sure.
steveintoronto
Superstar
I used to try and stick to the main thoroughfares, at least they wend themselves places, but you've got to understand, for a cyclist, almost all of those roads were crazy dangerous. When I pass through there now, I usually take the X bus down to Ainslee (I'm not a great fan of the bike racks on Grand River buses) and then cycle carefully down to the trail from there to Brantford and Hamilton. Ironically I can go far faster on the trail than on city roads, not least because it's direct and safe, even on crushed limestone. I note the core is a lot tamer since the LRT has started, and I look forward to giving it a try in a few months when it's warm enough to do distance. "Escape velocity".
But you know, I've stared at the new transit map, and still find it indeterminate as to where to transfer from the LRT to the 200iX down to Ainslee. Perhaps there's better maps to be found online than what I've seen? I've always caught the 200iX at the Kitchener bus terminal. (or at Pinebush and 24 if I get off the GO 25 bus in Cambridge) to get to the Ainslee terminal. It's reasonably safe cycling the rest of the way down 24, save that the path is now blocked next to the river due to erosion, and doing 24 at any spot is dabbling with suicide.
nfitz
Superstar
I figure they won't be done until they have one big long street that goes everywhere.
It's been interesting watching it evolve over the years. Things like Hazel-Bearinger-Beaver Creek-Fischer-Hallman-Westmount ... surprised they haven't merged in Northumberland Street south of Roseville to Paris yet!
It's been interesting watching it evolve over the years. Things like Hazel-Bearinger-Beaver Creek-Fischer-Hallman-Westmount ... surprised they haven't merged in Northumberland Street south of Roseville to Paris yet!
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
Don't ever bike on the roads here.
timio
Active Member
Intersecting parallel roads is a way of life here:
King/Weber (x3)
Highland/Queen
Fischer-Hallman/Westmount (x2)
University/Erb
steveintoronto
Superstar
I've got to give K/W this much credit for cycle-ability: It's not as bad as Cambridge! The stretch of (ex Hwy) 24 south from the bridge over the 401 (never cycle across it, walk as a pedestrian) is considered one if not the most dangerous stretches of city road in Canada.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
We do have a decent trail network here, and that arguably puts us above some other cities, but still, the drivers here are awful.
steveintoronto
Superstar
I've just spent another half an hour studying the trail maps. They don't get you in or out of the city, and they don't connect together in a continuous length by and large.
Not only that, the various trail maps I can find don't even correspond to each other! I have cycled down the Iron Horse Trail south to Cambridge and then down to the Grand River Trail to Brantford and Hamilton, but it was convoluted and a lot on roads I'd never repeat.
If you can link a map that "gets me out of town" for K/W, please do so. Even getting north to Elmira and on to the Kissing Bridge Trail has proven very difficult, last time I took a bus from the Conestoga Plaza....there's no way to cycle the main road north and have any nerves left.
It's truly unfortunate, as with the new LRT one would think there would be an effort to make K/W more enticing to distance cyclists, like Brantford, Hamilton, Petrborough and many other cities do.