[nfitz]

Oddly enough this LRT proposal doesn't go to St Jacobs Market - one of the main tourist draws of Kitchener-Waterloo - despite utilizing the very rail corridor that runs through the Market for much of the route south of it.

Does that seem that odd? That location is pretty empty during weekday peak periods. Essentially you'd be creating a service for a few hours on a Saturday. I'd think an express bus from Conestoga Mall would be more financially effective. Also, rather difficult to serve, given that you'd need a branch off the main line.

 

[Markster]

Building the LRT to St. Jacob's Market would be like building a subway to Black Creek Pioneer Village!

 

[smably]

Oddly enough this LRT proposal doesn't go to St Jacobs Market - one of the main tourist draws of Kitchener-Waterloo - despite utilizing the very rail corridor that runs through the Market for much of the route south of it.

Nothing odd about it. It was considered during the planning process and the demand just doesn't justify the huge capital expenditure that would be required. However, there is a tourist train that will run from the Northfield LRT stop to St Jacobs and on to Elmira, which is a much more appropriate mode given the demand.

 

[TOareaFan]

Building the LRT to St. Jacob's Market would be like building a subway to Black Creek Pioneer Village!

Good thing no one did that either........it really wasn't necessary as there was already plans to build a subway up to and past the major university across the street.....Black Creek PV can probably benefit as one of the two stops serving the university will be really close to it....and since both stops can't be called "York University" maybe they can get Pioneer Village in the name. Sorta the way that on Line 1 there is a stop called "Queen" and when you go a bit west of there another stop is called "Osgoode" to avoid confusion.

 

[nfitz]

However, there is a tourist train that will run from the Northfield LRT stop to St Jacobs and on to Elmira, which is a much more appropriate mode given the demand.

It's only going to run from Northfield? It's only 2 km to the market from there. They aren't going to service Uptown Waterloo anymore?

I'm not sure it's an effective mode - it only runs 3 times a day, first train doesn't arrive until 10:30 AM, and doesn't run in the winter. That's a tourist train, not a way to get locals to the market. And the fare is about $17 return! Why wouldn't you just take the 21 bus from Conestoga Mall?

 

[timio]

It's only going to run from Northfield? It's only 2 km to the market from there. They aren't going to service Uptown Waterloo anymore?

They're only putting in 1 additional track for the LRT, the second track will be shared for LRT and freight. The LRT is taking running rights on the line from Northfield - King (Uptown Waterloo) from 5AM to 1AM, which gives the daily freight train a 4 hour window to get from the Guelph Sub to Elmira and back. The tourist train wouldn't be very effective running in those hours.

See maps 3-11 here.

 

[44 North]

Uptown Waterloo is downtown Waterloo.

 

[nfitz]

Uptown Waterloo is downtown Waterloo.

And has been for at least 30 years. Sorry, what's your point?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterloo,_Ontario#Geography

 

[smably]

I'm not sure it's an effective mode - it only runs 3 times a day, first train doesn't arrive until 10:30 AM, and doesn't run in the winter. That's a tourist train, not a way to get locals to the market. And the fare is about $17 return! Why wouldn't you just take the 21 bus from Conestoga Mall?

Certainly for locals the 21 is more appropriate. But I was responding to this:

The days where I can board a train in Toronto (during any day of the week), get off at Kitchener, take Light Rail to friends, or to St. Jacobs Farmers Market are that much closer.

I.e., tourists visiting from the GTA, wanting to visit the market.

 

[Markster]

It's only going to run from Northfield? It's only 2 km to the market from there. They aren't going to service Uptown Waterloo anymore?

It's 2km to the market, but the train continues on to St. Jacobs the village, which is another 3 km beyond.
My hope is that they begin a more regular service to Elmira, which they currently only run on special occasions.
Northfield to Elmira is 11km. The current route, Uptown to St. Jacobs is 9km.

 

[smably]

My hope is that they begin a more regular service to Elmira, which they currently only run on special occasions.

Yes, that is the plan last I heard (via p. 56):

the current routing utilized by SOLRS for its passenger train operation will not be possible and it has proposed, as an alternative, a round-trip passenger service from Northfield Drive (where the Waterloo Spur crosses Northfield near the Conestoga Parkway) to Elmira with stops in St. Jacob’s.

 

[mpd618]

Let's be honest - there's not exactly a lot of tourists coming to Kitchener-Waterloo, and the vast majority of those come by car. Especially if they're going to the market. Bringing the LRT to St. Jacobs is a nice-sounding idea, but not one that makes too much sense at this point in time.

 

[ehlow]

Let's be honest - there's not exactly a lot of tourists coming to Kitchener-Waterloo, and the vast majority of those come by car. Especially if they're going to the market. Bringing the LRT to St. Jacobs is a nice-sounding idea, but not one that makes too much sense at this point in time.

If you're a tourist doing a day trip to the Waterloo area, you'd want a car to probably see other things in the region in addition to St Jacobs like:

- Halton Streetcar museum
- Charming small towns like Elora/Fergus, Paris
- That >100 year old restaurant that sells German food
etc..

At least, that's what I would do. So I'd lean towards a car trip rather than transit only.

Although, if I was there for business or to visit people or as a student, I'd take the GO train assuming it ran all day.

 

[innsertnamehere]

most Waterloo tourists are probably coming from Toronto, and HSR if it happens will mean a lot more will be coming in by train in 10 years.

But yes, LRT to St. Jacobs is silly.

 

[muller877]

Nothing odd about it. It was considered during the planning process and the demand just doesn't justify the huge capital expenditure that would be required. However, there is a tourist train that will run from the Northfield LRT stop to St Jacobs and on to Elmira, which is a much more appropriate mode given the demand.

I agree. Building LRT infrastructure for this type of service would be cost prohibitive. But the tourist train is too slow/too infrequent.

Why not have a single-track DMU service from Northfield LRT to Elmira? As a replacement for the current bus service year-round. There are a lot of commuters to Kitchener from Elmira & areas north of the city. The bus/Ion combination will not be a viable alternative to driving as Hwy 85 will be faster (f.k.a. Hwy 86). The DMU service may be faster (and would allow for tourists to have access to the farmers market with the same service)

There would be very little infrastructure required unlike the LRT line (no electrification needed). Initially 4 basic stations for the DMU (Northfield LRT, Farmers Market, St Jacobs, Elmira), stations may need a double track (so that in the future a second train can be added to the line) and parking at Elmira (Farmers Market will supply the parking for commuters in exchange for having the DMU service). Plans for more permanent stations and a 5th station under Hwy 85 in the future if there is demand. If there is not demand the stations can be used for the tourist train & the DMU unit can be sold.

In the summer the DMU can be integrated into the LRT line and terminate at the GO station. It can give tourists direct access to the Farmers Market. In the winter it may go to Conestoga Mall for connections with bus services (express buses).

Then GO/Stratford Festival/St Jacobs could offer a full day package. Take the train to Kitchener in the morning. Explore the Farmers Market/St Jacobs/Elmira during the day via the DMU service. Then continue on GO from Kitchener to Stratford in the afternoon. Have dinner, explore Stratford and see a play in the evening. Then take GO back to Toronto at night.