[Second_in_pie]

Greetings Torontonians, Toronto lovers and column C. I'm assuming that if you're on this forum, Toronto means something to you.

I have one question that's been bothering me for a while. What makes Toronto special?
We're a pretty average city on a bunch of levels. Our population isn't substantial and our density is pretty similar to that of any other North American city. The city layout isn't quite unique enough to set it apart from other American cities either.
Then, you can put on top of that the fact that we're actually doing pretty poorly. The government of the City itself can be described in a one word as incompetent. Our metro system isn't majorly noteworthy, and our government is trying it's best to ensure it doesn't become any more noteworthy. I guess we have streetcars, but I don't think that's enough to absolutely love the city.

That's just a couple of the reasons Toronto is insubstantial. So what makes it good? What's different about Toronto that makes it such a better place to live? I know I appreciate the diversity, and there are a couple times that I really appreciate the ravines, valleys, rivers and all the greenspace they give. But sometimes I think that the way the region's going, it's going to turn into a painfully average city (edited because mention of the City on the other side of Windsor as an example of a disaster is causing some anger,) or is just going to be left behind. I've looked at a crapload of other cities. New York, San Francisco, London, Paris, Barcelona, Tokyo, even Mecca (it's 5 pilgrim metro systems will be nice, a shame my love isn't Muslim) all have something that sets them apart from others, and they all get a lot of love.

Now part two to this thread, what makes Toronto eligible as a big world player? The Golden Horseshoe's population is supposed to increase a bit in the next decade or two, but I don't really know what could make it a big global city.

This is really a conundrum for me. I wouldn't say I'm planning for any moving, but I'm intrigued as to what makes Toronto special, both in an emotional/social and a political/economical sense. I'd like to hear what some of the people here think

 

[GenerationW]

Other than me living here , I would say Toronto's uniqueness (if there is one) is in being the most multicultural city in the world (or so they tell us), and we got there by leaving the old country conflicts behind for the most part.

S-I-P raises a good point by saying we're not really all that unique, but many Torontonians seem to crave that sort of recognition, typified by that overused mantra of Toronto being a world-class city, or Hollywood-north. Reminds me of a line by John Vernon playing the title character in the CBC movie Wojeck: Out of the Fire when he said, "What Toronto really needs is a good enema." Maybe he was right.

 

[jenny_zhang]

I like Toronto for its tolerance while at the same time I think people overrate its tolerance. European-Canadians may have left behind their old country conflicts or racist attitudes (it might be the British stock, when I visited Europe I've noticed that Brits are also fairly tolerant but step onto continental Europe and wow, suddenly everyone hates you) but I can assure that you lots of the more recent immigrants carry over their old country conflicts and xenophobia here resulting in the fragmentation that is occurring to some extent.

Still, growing up in Toronto is a rather unique experience due to the that and I wouldn't trade for anything else.

One other thing Toronto has over other NA cities is that we don't kill each other that much. Toronto is very safe compared to American major cities.

 

[Redroom Studios]

just to be picky, I'd have to disagree with your claim that Toronto is an insignificant population. The Oshawa to Hamilton corridor is the 5th largest urban area in North America after NYC, Mexico City, LA and Chicago. The rest of the Golden Horseshoe just adds to that.

So, on to the question at hand... one that is often asked but seems to have an elusive answer. For me its a combination of the people and the neighbourhoods. The people are generally well educated and cosmopolitain in their outlook. We really embrace our diversity and there seems to be this understanding that everyone is welcome here. We dont have burned out ghettos like much of the US does.

I do agree though that the layout of the city on a fairly strict grid system (of narrow streets) is uninspiring and much of the built form was not particularly well thought out. A lot of that is starting to change now. One thing that I find is both good and bad is that our density is evenly spread acorss the metro area with highrises from horizon to horizon. This is different than most US cities where highrise development is more concentrated in the downtown area. Just imagine what our downtown would look like if we followed that model!

anyways, ya Toronto may not be the greatest thing ever but for me there is still something about it that I love... its hard to put into words. And immigrants continue to come here in record numbers so obviously there is an attraction and an international reputation.

 

[Roots_Energize]

Toronto is growing from teenager into adult, maturing , exploring ideas, it is becoming a magnet because you get the sense that its on the cusp of something both new and old, the cities you mentioned above have already gone through these phases many times over, while Toronto is emerging, its not there yet, almost there it just needs to break through its shyness to the other sided, self realization, momentum, bouncing back ideas, connections, not being scared to be different!

 

[PukeGreen]

What makes Toronto Toronto is the fact that even though it is one of the safest, most vibrant, most diverse, and most livable cities in North America, many people for some reason want to insist that it is a terrible crime-ridden ugly hell hole. I can't think of anywhere else where the gap between reality and perception is so strong and so prevalent. Nor can I think of another city that is defined so strongly by those who do not live there, or who rarely if ever visit it.

"Diversity" sounds like a wishy-washy tourist marketing gimmick, but Toronto truly is diverse in a way that many other cities are not. In my travels through Europe I was continually shocked by the sameness of the people I saw. I remember riding with hundreds of people on a train in Germany and realizing that if I had to describe any of them, the descriptions would all be the same. Almost every person was tall, thin, blondish, with similar facial features. Contrast this to a streetcar in Toronto where it would be quite normal to find people from a dozen or more ethnic backgrounds. Similarly traveling in Europe I quickly tired of the sameness of the food in each region. A street might have 20 restaurants on it, but all of them would sell variations of the same cuisine. Walk past any random 20 restaurants in Toronto and you could have your pick of virtually any cuisine in the world.

I also find claims of ghetto-ization of self-segregation of different groups in Toronto to be odd. Compared to most other cities, including those I've been to in the US, things are very thoroughly mixed here. Sure we have Chinatowns and K-Towns and Little India, but they are more of a marketing label, clusters of similar businesses, frequented by Torontonians of all stripes. There is no experience similar to, say, Chicago, where you can cross one street and find yourself in an almost entirely Hispanic neighbourhood, then cross another and find yourself in an all African-American neighbourhood.

Another thing we take for granted in Toronto is the vibrancy of the downtown, and the tens of thousands of people who have chosen to live in condos downtown over the past decade back this up. On any given day in Toronto I can choose from a half dozen food festivals, cultural festivals, music festivals, film festivals, and so-on, across dozens of neighbourhoods each with their own flavour. Today I could go to Harbourfront for a spicy food festival, or Dundas Square for a Brazilian festival, or to the Distillery for an Arts Festival, or to Queen West for an arts crawl, or to the CNE for a carnival or an air show. And this is a totally normal summer weekend.

In many cities, especially in the US, the downtown cores are unpleasant, with a small financial or business area surrounded miles of "projects" where nobody who has a choice lingers as they flee to the suburbs at sundown. Toronto is the polar opposite of that; Second_in_pie's idea that Toronto will soon be a "Canadian Detroit" seems utterly impossible based on what I see around me every day. I cannot think of two places more different.

 

[Roots_Energize]

Also i think Torontonians cant just wait for culture to be handed to them by a small group of people , becoming passive consumers of entertainment, it they want a taste of real flavour, they have to participate and become active co-creaters, the most interesting powerful current day forms of music for example ,come from the street level and work there way up! from the bottom up not the top down.

 

[Roots_Energize]

I've heard that from people before "toronto is becoming like Detroit" i dont understand how they can think that, its nothing like Detroit.

 

[lordmandeep]

lol some of the older suburbs at the fringes of the city are going to hell.

However I doubt Downtown is going to hell.

 

[PukeGreen]

Also i think Torontonians cant just wait for culture to be handed to them by a small group of people , becoming passive consumers of entertainment, it they want a taste of real flavour, they have to participate and become active co-creaters, the most interesting powerful current day forms of music for example ,come from the street level and work there way up! from the bottom up not the top down.

Agreed. But I think the Toronto non-mainstream cultural scene is thriving. In terms of music alone, there are hundreds of venues downtown that are booked almost 7 nights a week. Contrast this to, say, Vancouver, where I understand the live music scene is in dire straits due to lack of venues caused in part by overzealous zoning and noise laws.

Big family events like the food fests, buskerfest, jazz fests, and so-on get the mainstream coverage on CP24 and the front of the Sun, but the really vibrant creative culture happens under the noses of 99% of Torontonians. 10 years on, though some apects of it usually filters up (down?) into the mainstream as the "next big thing".

 

[Urban Shocker]

For me, the strength of the city is that it acts as a neutral medium within which I can arrange my life as I wish with the least interference. Repeated on a larger scale, the Toronto ethos is one that allows people to opt into whatever they want to opt into - rather than one which imposes some sort of ghastly "melting pot" sameness on them.

 

[Northern Light]

My Toronto

First off...PIE.....Detroit? Really? Have you ever been?

***

What makes Toronto distinctive?

Much.

Despite how much heritage has been lost, a remarkable amount has been preserved. Toronto has one of the largest collections of Victorian Homes on the continent (if not the largest)

Our ravines aren't merely impressive.....they are a unique and significant feature. Toronto (416) is approximately 17% parks, ravines and openspace, not including private greenspace)

That's far more than the vast majority of cities around the world....

And surprisingly, perhaps, its increasing....With the addition of the Lower Don Parklands, The West Don Lands parklands, the new Railway lands parks, and the new Harbourfront and Bayfront parks......amount to more than 100 hectares or 250 acres of new parkland alone.

But shh, Rouge Park is growing, new parks are going to be added @ Scarborough City Centre (over 10 acres worth) and new parks are being added along the Scarborough and Etobicoke Waterfronts, with more still to come.

Forget Chicago's magnificent mile.....By the time Toronto is done, I fully expect an uninterrupted 25 mile (40km) long waterfront park system, connect to even more of the same east and west of the City.

Toronto's Diversity is astonishing. While some may think it overrated.....I too have had the experience through travel of going through Europe and the U.S. and know friends who have done Korea and Japan. To a person, we can't think of any City or Country where diversity is as ubiquitous as Toronto.
In Europe, most Cities feel almost like 'White people reserves' and where diversity does exist, such as in Paris, it is often confined to low income suburbs. Asia is no less dominantly Asian in most Cities, and the U.S. has very segregated society in the largest measure where black, Hispanic and other 'Whites' don't really mix socially in a big way; of course this varies place to place.....but its nothing like Toronto.

What some may hate about this place....and which can aggravate even those that love it (myself included) such as its lack of boldness....its interminable desire to compromise everything......is also its strength. This is City that very much embodies the idea of 1 Part European Socialism, 1 Part Yankee Capitalism; 1 Part Asian Pragmatism, ....

So here we are the 3rd largest financial services centre on the planet, a thriving free-trading, largely free-market, low-tax by world standards City......

Yet...with Universal Healthcare, comparatively clean and low-crime, with pension for bureaucratic mindedness that gives us low corruption and oodles of parks and libraries.

Its a place that needs to; can and will get better. But I'd find it very difficult to give up to live anywhere else.

*****

As to its future......no one can say for sure, even so-called experts are usually full of baloney!

BUT.....when I look at what is happening.....what's about to happen, what's likely to happen ........

I think Toronto's future looks pretty bright.

I wont' resummarize every project or rumour on the UT.......but..

We Have:

Tons of greenspace - more already under construction

We have a transit system that for all its faults produces the second highest modal split for transit in all of North America.
And make no mistake, while we all rightly nitpick the details, this system is about to undergo more growth in the next decade that the last 3 combined.
(Union Station, Massive GO improvements, one for sure, maybe as many as 3 subway projects, A new GTA farecard, major new LRTS in inner and outer burbs Etc. Etc.)

Canada's banks are in great shape, and have ascended the world ladder by standing still.

Now they have cash and will spend it to grow. As they also benefit from declining Corporate Taxes in Ontario and Federally and lower business property taxes in Toronto....look for much growth, and more downtown offices....

Speaking of Taxes, Corporate taxes are falling rapidly, to well below U.S. levels. Income taxes are also falling (albeit more slowly); we now have among the lowest aggregate levels of taxation in the OECD and with lower debt too.

Canada has an abundance of natural resources all of which are rising in value. From Oil to Gas, Potash to Uranium to Gold......and the mining capital of Canada is.....Toronto....

Population growth projections generally show Toronto will surpass Chicago (proper City to proper City) in the next 5 years. In Metropolitan area this will likely occur in the next 20.....

And while I don't expect too many ground-breaking announcements on office towers in the next while, I know of 8, 30s or more in the planning stages.

(FYI, Brookfield 3, Caisse de Depot - Yonge St, BAC 2/3, Manulife's plan, Richmond Adelaide, and at least 3 more.)

And while Toronto has needy areas, Regent Park is being redone, and areas's from Chester Le to Lawrence Heights to Alexandra Park will soon follow.

Did I mention....that York U.....will get its Faculty of Medicine soon.....and Engineering there after....with all those nice high-paying jobs here in Toronto and the spin-off research benefits.

I think this City has a bright future.

 

[Second_in_pie]

First off...PIE.....Detroit? Really? Have you ever been? .

You're right, Detroit is a bit off. But larger and larger amounts of businesses and industry are located in the suburbs. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think all the mini downtowns that VCC, RHC, MTC, STC and Yonge and Eglinton are becoming will be a good way to spread out jobs. Focusing them like a downtown rather than business park sprawl, but splitting them up so too much isn't focused in one place. Then you have NYCC and MCC, which are on their way to becoming downtowns in their own right.

Speaking of Taxes, Corporate taxes are falling rapidly, to well below U.S. levels. Income taxes are also falling (albeit more slowly); we now have among the lowest aggregate levels of taxation in the OECD and with lower debt too.

Really? I didn't know that. That is all good news.

Canada has an abundance of natural resources all of which are rising in value. From Oil to Gas, Potash to Uranium to Gold......and the mining capital of Canada is.....Toronto....

While I'm hoping that most of Canada's growth won't be focused solely on the GTA, this is true. Canada is quickly and quickly becoming a very important country in a number of ways. I don't know what the population growth for the country as a whole is, but it must be high.

Population growth projections generally show Toronto will surpass Chicago (proper City to proper City) in the next 5 years. In Metropolitan area this will likely occur in the next 20.....

Are you serious? City vs. City maybe, but with Metro area vs. Metro area, the population would have to double. That would have easily been believable 10 years ago, but suburban sprawl has pretty much had it's head cut off. I can't believe that MTC or VCC will have a population of 200 thousand (maybe if I really have my numbers off.) Is there something I'm missing? I believe the numbers, but I can't grasp the logic behind them.

On a similar note, there's a similarly large (but not nearly as huge) amount of growth basically in all the rest of Canada. It took me a second before I realized Canadian censuses are twice as frequent as American ones, and I realized that the population growth rate is huge! It would seem that our country is growing quite fast, which I have to be honest makes me happy and excited for it's future

I think this City has a bright future.

I agree, but there's potential for so much better we could get. From all the subways that Miller's stealing from us to the constant bickering amongst the city's councillors, not to mention other governments in the region and even in the Provincial and (grr) the Federal governments.

It's certainly stepping in the right direction, and I hope it continues to do so with bigger steps. There's really so much potential for the region, and I see it in 20 years as a green, dense, multicultural and significantly transit-oriented, world-leading metropolis (if that's not too ugly a word.)

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

What makes Toronto Toronto? Ugly, shabby, degraded, and neglected public realms and streetscapes. Nobody does it better (or worse, depending on your outlook on these things). Lack of pride is our MO, period. I can go into voluminous detail, but all one need do is walk down most Toronto streets to get the point.

 

[golodhendil]

Northern Light: There are a few things that I do agree with your glowing review of Toronto --- especially the part about diversity; though I must say that in a number of American cities like NY and Boston, segregation isn't nearly as bad as it used to be / as conventional wisdom, and diversity in NY is most certainly catching up.

However, there are some problems that would need to be pointed out / aren't as distinctive as you made it to be.

17% green space, while impressive, is not particularly unique among many world cities. Eg, NY's open/green spaces comprise 25% of its area; SF and DC, 20%; Boston, 16%; Paris, 35%; Singapore, 50-60%; HK, 75%.

And Toronto is the 3rd largest financial centre in the world? Toronto hardly ranks in the top 10 global financial/commerical centres (though never too far off in recent years), let alone top 5. I think you confused North America with the planet.