[gweed123]

I'd like to know how you determined the location of DRL west anyways? I say using the Georgetown rail corridor is redundant, this will have high-frequency GO service in the near future. Why not have a DRL subway station at King-Roncesvalles intersection, which will become a major terminus for King, Long Branch, Roncesvalles, and Queen streetcars?

High frequency GO is not a substitute for a subway though. While it may be high frequency, the degree of connectivity it will offer to the adjacent neighbourhoods is virtually zero. Are they even planning to add in 1 stop between Bloor and Union? How will high-frequency GO service benefit Liberty Village at all (aside from a few rail-road intersections being grade-separated)?

The second aspect is the amount of transit-oriented redevelopment than can take place along the route. The route is lined with unused or underused industrial sites. The ability to have all of these potential redevelopment sites being within a couple minute walk, if not directly adjacent to, a subway stop would be a very big selling point. The amount of redevelopment and intensification that can occur along an alignment like using King or Queen pales in comparison.

And the DRL west is not intended replace any existing streetcar lines, only relieve them. These streetcar lines provide a level of local service that a subway can't match. And if it tried to, the station spacing would be so close together that it wouldn't be a faster alternative route at all.

 

[Fresh Start]

An LRT tunnel underneath Queen Street between Roncesvalles and Dufferin presumably would have to consist of four stations: Ronci, Jameson, Brock and Dufferin; so at least through Parkdale the 501 car would become redundant. On the plus side though, having this infrastructure in place would bolster the case for expanding an underground east-west transit line across the innercity sometime in the future.

 

[Fresh Start]

Not to nitpick, but the hydro corridor busway is 2.1km long, not 1.5. And the entire route is 6.5km long, so the Dufferin portion is less than a third of the length.

When calculating the costs, I would just ignore the portion on Dufferin, since the cost would be negligible. Replacing the HOV signs with Bus signs would add up to what? A few thousand dollars?

So that's about $40 million for 3km of busways, a new entrance into Downsview, and that left turn thing on Dufferin.

It was really 38 million dollars for the 6.5 kilometres which breaks down to $5.84 million per kilometre. If Transit City isn't being discriminatory about which parts of its ROW are easy to build in constrast to more complex routings such as grade separations whenever they publish their overall cost projections /km, why should we? But to play devil's advocate, even if it cost the TTC nothing to build the Dufferin Street section of the ROW, they got it for free (!), the remaining 4.5 kilometres for $38 million only amounted to $8.4 million/km. Compared this to the $79.26 million per kilometre for SELRT, cost difference of 89.41%.

 

[gweed123]

An LRT tunnel underneath Queen Street between Roncesvalles and Dufferin presumably would have to consist of four stations: Ronci, Jameson, Brock and Dufferin; so at least through Parkdale the 501 car would become redundant. On the plus side though, having this infrastructure in place would bolster the case for expanding an underground east-west transit line across the innercity sometime in the future.

4 stations would make the stop spacing between stations only 300m. It's only 1.5km from Roncesvalles to Dufferin. So in that case, 2 stations between the two max. And presumably the 501 car would run in the tunnel, with a separate route running from Long Branch to the DRL.

And yes, this would definetly boost the case for a Queen LRT subway sometime in the future.

 

[Rainforest]

Not to nitpick, but the hydro corridor busway is 2.1km long, not 1.5. And the entire route is 6.5km long, so the Dufferin portion is less than a third of the length.

Correct. I thought it uses about 500 m of Murray Ross street east of Keele, but looked at the map now, and it appears that the busway merges into Murray Ross near Keele.

When calculating the costs, I would just ignore the portion on Dufferin, since the cost would be negligible. Replacing the HOV signs with Bus signs would add up to what? A few thousand dollars?

So that's about $40 million for 3km of busways, a new entrance into Downsview, and that left turn thing on Dufferin.

Then, it more like 4.5 km of new road, or about 9 million per km.

However, construction of new road on empty land might be cheaper than adding bus lanes to existing street.

I would think that the 15 million/km estimate taken from the Hamilton study is a better ballpark for BRT on Toronto streets, except for sections where you are planning queue-jump lanes only.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Looks as though someone posted a map similar to SOS on Rocco Rossi's Facebook page encouraging him to abandon Transit City and build subway lines when he becomes mayor.

 

[kettal]

High frequency GO is not a substitute for a subway though. While it may be high frequency, the degree of connectivity it will offer to the adjacent neighbourhoods is virtually zero. Are they even planning to add in 1 stop between Bloor and Union? How will high-frequency GO service benefit Liberty Village at all (aside from a few rail-road intersections being grade-separated)?

The second aspect is the amount of transit-oriented redevelopment than can take place along the route. The route is lined with unused or underused industrial sites. The ability to have all of these potential redevelopment sites being within a couple minute walk, if not directly adjacent to, a subway stop would be a very big selling point. The amount of redevelopment and intensification that can occur along an alignment like using King or Queen pales in comparison.

And the DRL west is not intended replace any existing streetcar lines, only relieve them. These streetcar lines provide a level of local service that a subway can't match. And if it tried to, the station spacing would be so close together that it wouldn't be a faster alternative route at all.

I fail to see how serving Liberty Village is dependent on the DRL subway being aligned with the Georgetown rail corridor; all the industrial lands which could be rebuilt are already in the catchment area of Lansdowne Station.

Are the Victorian residential neighbourhoods going to be replaced with high-rises? Should they be? I reckon they're worth preserving. As far as relieving the subway congestion, GO transit is indeed the "downtown relief" option for the west end. It's not a subway but it provides the relief none the less.

 

[Fresh Start]

The Weston Galt commuter rail services could indeed become a de facto DRL in the west end if stops were added to King, Queen, Dundas, Dupont, St Clair, Rogers Road and Eglinton. However there's major issues to overcome, lack of fare integration (would GO Transit be free to ride for short-distance inner-416 travellers with one's TTC POP or would it be an independent service?) If so what would the fare structure be? As is Bloor GO to Union is $3.95 one-way so obviously the fare schema needs to be lowered, especially if one's fare only covers travel along the one line. Also the frequency. When the subway runs every 2-3 minutes will customers even appreciate a 10 minute headway for commuter-rail? And how would GO be able to keep tighter headways if demand surrounding the rail corridor isn't going to be extremely high, they'd lose money. Would there space in the corridor for more platform area and would 905 travellers appreciate their train stopped multiple times in/outwards through the innercity if they've majorly bound for the CBD? So lots of challenges with that option.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Looks as though someone posted a map similar to SOS on Rocco Rossi's Facebook page encouraging him to abandon Transit City and build subway lines when he becomes mayor.

Rossi is so anti-transit even a child I can see it if anybody who even thinks about voting him for him because he might build subways is deluded as hell.

I know you know this, Juan, but I feel like it's important to say it again and again.

 

[RedRocket191]

Rossi is so anti-transit even a child I can see it if anybody who even thinks about voting him for him because he might build subways is deluded as hell.

I know you know this, Juan, but I feel like it's important to say it again and again.

Fortunatly (from my perspective - others may not agree), the mayor of any given city only has the power of persuasion to change the RTP.

 

[Rainforest]

The Weston Galt commuter rail services could indeed become a de facto DRL in the west end if stops were added to King, Queen, Dundas, Dupont, St Clair, Rogers Road and Eglinton. However there's major issues to overcome, lack of fare integration (would GO Transit be free to ride for short-distance inner-416 travellers with one's TTC POP or would it be an independent service?) If so what would the fare structure be? As is Bloor GO to Union is $3.95 one-way so obviously the fare schema needs to be lowered, especially if one's fare only covers travel along the one line. Also the frequency. When the subway runs every 2-3 minutes will customers even appreciate a 10 minute headway for commuter-rail? And how would GO be able to keep tighter headways if demand surrounding the rail corridor isn't going to be extremely high, they'd lose money. Would there space in the corridor for more platform area and would 905 travellers appreciate their train stopped multiple times in/outwards through the innercity if they've majorly bound for the CBD? So lots of challenges with that option.

There is a fair chance that the fare issue will be solved with the Presto card. Hopefully, it will cost same, or perhaps a small premium like 50 c, to take GO instead of subway within 416.

Having all stations you mentioned, King, Queen, Dundas, Dupont, St Clair, Rogers Road and Eglinton, will be nice for the neighbourhoods involved, but detrimental for the speed of the long-range service. The way to reconsile the two requirements would be having both express and local tracks. I don't know if the width of Galt sub allows that. Sure it is wide, but many routes compete for it already: Brampton, Mississauga, ARL; plus it still has some freight load.

 

[leopetr]

There is a fair chance that the fare issue will be solved with the Presto card. Hopefully, it will cost same, or perhaps a small premium like 50 c, to take GO instead of subway within 416.

Conversely, GO's recent fare hikes have all been flat across the board, making travel within the 416 more expensive relative to long-distance travel. Presto will make it technically easy to integrate fares, but both TTC and GO wil demand a big operational budget boost to actually integrate.

I live downtown and work at Warden & Highway 7, so I'd love fare integration between TTC/YRT/GO. Unfortunately, fare medium incompatibility is not the only reason it hasn't happened yet.

Another thing I'd love to see is 2 hour unlimited travel per fare on the TTC just like on the YRT. This was last estimated as costing an additional $25m in annual subsidy.

 

[gweed123]

Another thing I'd love to see is 2 hour unlimited travel per fare on the TTC just like on the YRT. This was last estimated as costing an additional $25m in annual subsidy.

Maybe if they had people actually manning the booths, they might cover that cost...

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Rossi is so anti-transit even a child I can see it if anybody who even thinks about voting him for him because he might build subways is deluded as hell.

I know you know this, Juan, but I feel like it's important to say it again and again.

I think he might be more anti-streetcar running in the middle of the road blocking traffic or anti-LRT which would not be rapid.

 

[kEiThZ]

Looks as though someone posted a map similar to SOS on Rocco Rossi's Facebook page encouraging him to abandon Transit City and build subway lines when he becomes mayor.

1) I am concerned that you might be the one spreading this stuff around without authorization. Can we be sure it's not you?

2) Post the link. I haven't seen anything on Rocco's website blog or his Facebook wall.