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gentlepuppies

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Why does Oshawa, Pickering, Ajax, etc get all-day train service every 20-30 min even on weekends, at each of their lonely auto-dependent park-and-rides, when Hamilton GO, only 15 min further from Union, located smack in the downtown of the biggest city in Southern Ontario besides Toronto/Ottawa, gets no service on weekends, and only 4 trains per weekday? Why truncate the regular service one stop short at Aldershot? It doesn't make sense.
 
Lots of discussion of GO service in the Transportation and Infrastructure area...including talk of Hamilton GO service. Be warned though, facts are important and there are 2 other municipalities in Southern Ontario that you did not mention that are larger than Hamilton (by population) and growing faster than Hamilton too.
 
Why does Oshawa, Pickering, Ajax, etc get all-day train service every 20-30 min even on weekends, at each of their lonely auto-dependent park-and-rides, when Hamilton GO, only 15 min further from Union, located smack in the downtown of the biggest city in Southern Ontario besides Toronto/Ottawa, gets no service on weekends, and only 4 trains per weekday? Why truncate the regular service one stop short at Aldershot? It doesn't make sense.

The main reason is railway line ownership putting restrictions on service. The new station was built to help fix that issue.

That said, the Express Bus does run every 20 minutes and is almost always faster than the train even with Gardiner under construction.
 
But buses are ghetto... I rather have am empty row on a train to myself than have reclining seats on a crowded bus. Hate how politics is making waste of a well-situated existing train station in favor of building a new one in a relatively remote location. It makes as much sense as having half the Toronto-bound trains stop at Liberty Village instead.

Which Ontario city is bigger than Hamilton besides Ottawa/GTA?
 
But buses are ghetto... I rather have am empty row on a train to myself than have reclining seats on a crowded bus. Hate how politics is making waste of a well-situated existing train station in favor of building a new one in a relatively remote location. It makes as much sense as having half the Toronto-bound trains stop at Liberty Village instead.

Which Ontario city is bigger than Hamilton besides Ottawa/GTA?

While sympathetic to your overall position, "buses are ghetto" is not a valid reason for crafting transportation policy. And it sounds to me, based on what rbt is saying, that the main problem is not politics but line ownership. Having said all that, we need much, much better train service in the GTA. Politics is a stumbling block to achieving that objective.
 
There are a multitude of issues, primarily relating to the infrastructure available between Toronto and Hamilton. Just north of the Downtown Hamilton GO station is a tunnel that GO trains pass through, which is only wide enough for a single track. This means that all day service to Downtown Hamilton would require an expensive rebuild of that tunnel. Its cheaper to build a new station where those issues don't exist, which also has the added bonus as a stop for the trains going to Niagara. Amtrack may soon be able to stop in Hamilton, which it hasn't been able to do for decades.

The other major piece of missing infrastructure holding back all day service to Hamilton is the rail junction at the end of Burlington Bay. From Toronto to Aldershot, GO trains run on the southern tracks of the rail line, and must transfer to the northern tracks to get to Hamilton. This involves switching over the freight tracks, temporarily blocking them. To fix this problem and eliminate freight conflicts, an overpass must be constructed there. This is in the middle of an extremely environmentally sensitive area, would require partly filling in a bit of the bay, and has a cost estimated at over half a billion dollars.

Then finally you have a lack of dedicated GO tracks from Aldershot to Hamilton, which would need to be constructed, and as mentioned, travel times on the train is often slower than for the buses shuttling people over the Burlington Skyway to Burlington GO.

So put simply, why doesn't GO, well, go to Hamilton? Because its extremely expensive to do it.
 
it works in the end. nobody is stuck overnight and everyone gets to work and back somehow. no complainers.
 
Why does Oshawa, Pickering, Ajax, etc get all-day train service every 20-30 min even on weekends, at each of their lonely auto-dependent park-and-rides, when Hamilton GO, only 15 min further from Union, located smack in the downtown of the biggest city in Southern Ontario besides Toronto/Ottawa, gets no service on weekends, and only 4 trains per weekday? Why truncate the regular service one stop short at Aldershot? It doesn't make sense.
Hello,

Just noticed this thread already. We already have a "Hamilton General Service" thread where most of this thread discussion is already in.

I'm the author of the GO train special features in Hamilton's most popular local blog, RaiseTheHammer:
- GO Part 1: Major GO Train Construction For Hamilton
- GO Part 2: Weekend All-Day GO Trains Possible In Hamilton 2016
(Part 3, which I am writing regarding the Gage GO station, is coming spring 2016)

Service in Hamilton will gradually ramp up between now and ~2024 when Hamilton gets all-day GO service.

It cannot easily be done today because of freight ownership of tracks beyond Burlington, regardless of what promises the Ontario government made. However, they have finally put down major moeny in several GO construction sites in the Hamilton area -- and this will portend at least some significant service increases in the coming years, at the minimum.

Photographed GO train construction sites are currently ongoing as we speak:
metrolinx_three_go_expansions_hamilton_niagara_map.png


__________

At Construction Site #1: Phase 2 of West Harbour GO (parking lot, spur extension, double track, etc)
rejhon_go2_west_harbour_go_station_after_sunset.jpg

west_harbour_go_layout_map.png

West Harbour Phase 2 completes 2017.
__________

At Construction Site #2: Stoney Creek GO station (bridge/prep work)
rejhon_centennial_parkway_new_railroad_bridge_built_2015_07.jpg

layout_of_stoney_creek_go_station_on_centennial_parkway.jpg

Centennial Parkway GO station opens 2019
__________

At Construction Site #3: Lewis Rd GO facility; increases number of overnight parking spots for GO trains for increased morning service
rejhon_go_train_facility_signage_lewis_road.jpg

rejhon_lews_road_facility_sidings_built.jpg


Lewis Road train yard opens 2016, allowing further increase in Hamilton GO service

In short, the funds that are now being spent on GO construction in Hamilton area, pretty much guarantees major GO train service increases (of some kind) in the coming years. Hopefully the promise of all-day GO service is finally kept.

Anyway, for more explanations and pictures, see:
- GO Part 1: Major GO Train Construction For Hamilton
- GO Part 2: Weekend All-Day GO Trains Possible In Hamilton 2016

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon
 
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But buses are ghetto... I rather have am empty row on a train to myself than have reclining seats on a crowded bus. Hate how politics is making waste of a well-situated existing train station in favor of building a new one in a relatively remote location. It makes as much sense as having half the Toronto-bound trains stop at Liberty Village instead.
There are several, very, very good reasons why both stations exist.

In GO Part 1, relevant explanation:

___________

Why are there two downtown GO stations?
This is a common question. Both Hamilton GO station and West Harbour GO stations have separate pros/cons that warrant keeping both of them concurrently, for the time being.

Hamilton GO - Hunter Street
  • Corridor owned by CP
  • More pedestrian friendly
  • Easily accessible via B-Line
  • Terminus Station
  • Intercity Bus terminal
West Harbour GO - James Street North
  • Corridor owned by CN
  • Room for free parking
  • Still very pedestrian friendly
  • Through Station: Track continues to St. Catharines/Niagara
For example, drivers will find it easier to park at West Harbour GO, while downtowners and B-Line users will find it easier to go to Hamilton GO. As GO extends Lakeshore West rail service in the future, the role of West Harbour GO could become increasingly important as time passes.

The current announced plan is for hourly all-day train service to Hamilton downtown GO station, rather than West Harbour.

However, the role of West Harbour is not necessarily set in stone. It can potentially eventually change to become the all-day service station instead, perhaps once the LRT is built, if favourable to do so. There is more servicing space at the Lewis Road Layover Facility to expand with, which may affect future decision on station role changes.

There is also the proposed year-round GO train service to Niagara Falls, upgrading the seasonal service into a year-round commuter service.

Other service concepts such as Niagara Express turns West Harbour GO into an important interchange station between the Toronto trains and Niagara trains.

The latter idea is a creative means of protecting Lakeshore West trains from being impacted by delays at Welland Canal. Implementation of any of these ideas will modify the importance of West Harbour GO.

Additionally, it may turn out that negotiating with one of the freight companies (CN versus CP) may end up easier than the other. It appears having both stations permits Metrolinx to hedge bets for service expansion to Hamilton, since the Hamilton freight tracks is not currently for sale.

Even Metrolinx acknowledges that the roles of the two Hamilton GO stations may change in the future:

Metrolinx said:
CN owns the corridor west of Burlington and operates it as a main freight line, and CP owns the corridor into the Hamilton GO Centre; this will drive infrastructure requirements and the timing of electrification

and

Metrolinx said:
Additional work needed to determine the roles of the Hamilton GO Centre and the new James North station

In any case, it is possible one station will have peak service, and the other station will have all-day service. It is also possible roles can reverse later on, given the upcoming A-Line LRT, and Hamilton waterfront redevelopment potentially creating a new CBD for commuters.
 
Why does Oshawa, Pickering, Ajax, etc get all-day train service every 20-30 min even on weekends, at each of their lonely auto-dependent park-and-rides, when Hamilton GO, only 15 min further from Union, located smack in the downtown of the biggest city in Southern Ontario besides Toronto/Ottawa, gets no service on weekends, and only 4 trains per weekday? Why truncate the regular service one stop short at Aldershot? It doesn't make sense.
Because GO doesn't own the railroad tracks between Aldershot and Burlington.



That's why by around year ~2023, we are getting hourly service instead of half-hourly service:



Metrolinx is already spending over a couple hundred million (total) in Hamilton-area GO construction, all of which will help ramp service to this hourly level within a decade.

With the new rail-favorable governments currently in power, we are in good ramp-up shape for the next 10 years.

But to go beyond, requires a large seismic shift in population thinking: e.g. People demanding rail infrastructure instead of freeway widenings. (European style railroad-to-roads spending ratios, rather than North American style).
 
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Some more GO construction pictures for Hamilton (above and beyond the pics I took)
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-metrolinx-various.9023/page-155#post-1066339

(Hamilton Junction expansion.)

The increase will be incremental over the coming years.
Beginning July 2015 the number of regular GO commuter train trips increased from 8 train trips to 12 train trips per day.
4 to Toronto from Hamilton Downtown GO (morning)
2 to Toronto from West Harbour GO (morning)
4 to Hamilton Downtown GO from Toronto (evening)
2 to West Harbour GO from Toronto (evening)
 
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