[TOperson]

Wow. Given the cray-cray statements and debates on this site, it looks like anti-wind = pro-coal, pro-nuclear, pro-fracking. With a heaping serving of NIMBYism plus YIYBism. Nice.

http://ontario-wind-resistance.org/...uences-of-the-green-energy-act/#comment-95711

They've lost my support. Bring on the IWTs!!!

 

[TrickyRicky]

There will not be a wind Farm on the Leslie Spit. I have no source. I have no information. It is just self-evident that this will not happen. It is conceivable that a few turbines will be placed say at the Ashbridges Bay water treatment facility etc. But that won't happen either.

 

[nfitz]

There will not be a wind Farm on the Leslie Spit. I have no source. I have no information. It is just self-evident that this will not happen.

Why is it self-evident?

Seems to be an excellent place for both wind, and the only place I can think of in Toronto with no residents for over a kilometre ... or 2 or 3!

 

[Wrenkin]

Why is it self-evident?

Seems to be an excellent place for both wind, and the only place I can think of in Toronto with no residents for over a kilometre ... or 2 or 3!

Probably because of the birds, as discussed.

 

[nfitz]

Probably because of the birds, as discussed.

Have we discussed? I've seen some mentions, but I'm not sure I've seen discussion.

I'd have a hard time believing that a relatively slender structure like a single windmill would cause as many bird deaths than a glass tower. I'd also think you could mitigate a lot with the colour of the structure, and perhaps even noise making devices (given there aren't any residents nearby).

 

[RC8]

As I said before, the spit is literally the only refuge for migratory birds in the region. It is of massive ecological importance and shouldn't be tampered with. The TRCA doesn't let the city build new bridges over our rivers to protect their waters, and I would be beyond shocked if turbines were to be built in the spit.

It's not a wind-turbine specific problem, either, large reflective towers within the spit would also be tragic. In fact, wind-turbines when placed strategically are not particularly large bird-killers.

 

[nfitz]

The TRCA doesn't let the city build new bridges over our rivers to protect their waters ...

I'm not sure I believe that. I'm not aware of any blanket TRCA bans on bridges. As long as they don't reduce the storage capacity of the floodplain or impact wildlife, I don't think there's a prohibition.

Do you have a reference for this?

 

[TOperson]

Have we discussed? I've seen some mentions, but I'm not sure I've seen discussion.

I'd have a hard time believing that a relatively slender structure like a single windmill would cause as many bird deaths than a glass tower. I'd also think you could mitigate a lot with the colour of the structure, and perhaps even noise making devices (given there aren't any residents nearby).

I've heard that it's because some birds can't simply change their routes, their brains aren't equipped to do that, since they never needed to do it. Changing the route can mean changing resting areas, feeding areas, etc, i.e. a domino effect, which for some species is disastrous.

 

[nfitz]

I've heard that it's because some birds can't simply change their routes, their brains aren't equipped to do that, since they never needed to do it. Changing the route can mean changing resting areas, feeding areas, etc, i.e. a domino effect, which for some species is disastrous.

If that's the argument then for not building on Leslie spit, then surely it's a non-issue because Leslie spit never used to be there ... it used to be lake. So it would neither be a resting area or feeding area for these species that can't simply change their route.

 

[Wrenkin]

If that's the argument then for not building on Leslie spit, then surely it's a non-issue because Leslie spit never used to be there ... it used to be lake. So it would neither be a resting area or feeding area for these species that can't simply change their route.

True, however it is situated next to the site of the old Ashbridge's Bay marsh.

 

[nfitz]

True, however it is situated next to the site of the old Ashbridge's Bay marsh.

It's certainly something that needs to be looked at. I'm not convinced it's a show-stopper though. Though perhaps there are better places ... off Scarborough perhaps

 

[RC8]

I'm not sure I believe that. I'm not aware of any blanket TRCA bans on bridges. As long as they don't reduce the storage capacity of the floodplain or impact wildlife, I don't think there's a prohibition.

Do you have a reference for this?

There isn't a 'blanket ban' or any type of ban, but I've worked with the TRCA in the past AND have had conversations with trail-infrastructure guys from the city who can both confirm that even small bridges are very difficult to get approval for. By no means impossible, though.

The situation with wind turbines would be several orders of magnitude more delicate. A single wind-turbine wouldn't make much sense, so we'd be looking at a wind farm if anything - which would be catastrophic in such a sensitive area.

The spit is the single most sensitive ecological area in the GTA, it would make no sense to exchange it for something that could go anywhere else.

 

[nfitz]

There isn't a 'blanket ban' or any type of ban, but I've worked with the TRCA in the past AND have had conversations with trail-infrastructure guys from the city who can both confirm that even small bridges are very difficult to get approval for. By no means impossible, though.

Surely a small bridge over a river is much bigger an issue than a big bridge. With a big bridge you can span the entire floodplain. With a small bridge not only are you likely building the structure in the floodplain, but you need to be careful to design the span to handle a regional storm event.

The situation with wind turbines would be several orders of magnitude more delicate. A single wind-turbine wouldn't make much sense, so we'd be looking at a wind farm if anything - which would be catastrophic in such a sensitive area.

The spit is the single most sensitive ecological area in the GTA, it would make no sense to exchange it for something that could go anywhere else.

As far as I understand, the key environmental factor in the siting of wind farms is the distance to the nearest resident. Other than building in the lake, surely this is the only area available in the GTA!

 

[TOperson]

If that's the argument then for not building on Leslie spit, then surely it's a non-issue because Leslie spit never used to be there ... it used to be lake. So it would neither be a resting area or feeding area for these species that can't simply change their route.

I meant in general, this is one of the issues with wind farms and birds. Depends on the species too.

As for the Spit itself, it's my understanding that it is an important and unique study area, because of how it evolved and how wildlife use it, etc. On that basis alone I think it should be protected.

 

[RC8]

Surely a small bridge over a river is much bigger an issue than a big bridge. With a big bridge you can span the entire floodplain. With a small bridge not only are you likely building the structure in the floodplain, but you need to be careful to design the span to handle a regional storm event.

It depends on the design of the bridge. Most large bridges are unbelievably damaging to rivers - both during construction and upon completion.

A bridge like (a) below is much less of an issue than a bridge like (b):

(a)

(b)

As far as I understand, the key environmental factor in the siting of wind farms is the distance to the nearest resident. Other than building in the lake, surely this is the only area available in the GTA!

The lack of residents also make this the only valuable natural sanctuary in the GTA. It is much more important to have a natural sanctuary in an otherwise dead zone, than to have a wind farm that could be producing the same amount of electricity just as efficiently elsewhere.