[Dan416]

That all sounds very depressing. I wouldn't be surprised if Erin Mills went the same way. Erin Mills is newer, and its straits not so dire as Woodbine (better stores, slightly busier, lots of new housing) but the fact is, Erin Mills is as unbusy as it ever has been.

EDIT: Looking at the mix of stores at Woodbine it's similar to that of any mall. Bay, Zellers, Sears; Sport Chek, Children's Place, Garage, Aldo, Baskin Robbins, Bell, Bluenotes, Fido, Costa Blanca, EB Games, Foot Locker, Fairweather, Le Chateau, La Senza, The Source, Tip Top Tailers, Urban Behavior.

 

[adma]

I haven't been to an indoor mall this depressing since setting foot in Honeydale Mall a few months ago, Eglinton Square in the 90's, Rexdale Mall (now demolished and replaced by big box hell), Rockwood Mall in Mississauga (Dixie and Burnhamthorpe), or that piece of shit at Kipling and Queensway. Is Woodbine the only major regional indoor mall faring so poorly?

Somehow, Eglinton Square never struck me as *that* bad, even in the 90s--it reminds me more of a somewhat lesser and smaller east-end version of Cloverdale.

But if you want anything that represents the skids in Woodbine environs, you can't beat Albion Mall, which just persists and persists and persists...

 

[adma]

Shoppers World Brampton did very poorly until RioCan took over the property and boxed the place, demolishing a large section for a Crappy Tire and all sorts of work, including a food court that didn't make one want to vomit. It's doing better, but it lost the Bay store. The Price Chopper closed too, but that likely only improves its prestige (it closed after a Real Canadian SuperStore moved in across the street - man was Price Chopper dirty). An Asian supermarket (Oceans) is moving in.

SWB always struck me as a "small town mall" affair--kind of like something like Quinte Mall in Belleville dropped into the 905 belt. In a funny way, that struck me as less inherently white-elephant-like than Bramalea City Centre.

Given Price Chopper's replacement, how "ethnoburban" is SWB's retail now, or potentially?

 

[ShonTron]

SWB isn't very ethnourban - most of the South Asian owned and targeted businesses are in strip plazas.

But South Asians aren't the fastest growing ethnic group in Brampton anymore (though by abolute numbers they're still by far the largest group coming), the new wave coming are Latin Americans, followed by southeast Asians.

 

[sam1025]

Woodbine Centre

Does anyone know what's happening to this ghetto mall?..Woodbine use to be the pride of Etobicoke in the 80's and early 90... now its managed poorly with cheaper owners I guess!!!

 

[lordmandeep]

It will remain a mall mostly attracting local area residents...

If the area around every develops then it may do okay...

 

[sam1025]

Its just a poorly run mall with 3rd class stores !....Its called "Hoodbine" mall to the locals ! The mall is a joke !!! I would never shop there !

 

[Transportfan]

A subtler point: Woodbine opened just as the bottom was beginning to drop out of North Etobicoke's white Caucasian demo...

That's the case with Yorkdale too, and there it happened much earlier. Yet Yorkdale's still a very successful mall.

 

[adma]

That's the case with Yorkdale too, and there it happened much earlier. Yet Yorkdale's still a very successful mall.

Not really. For starters, Yorkdale opened back in 1964: unless swarthy Mediterraneans count as non-Caucasian, there was no ghetto-ish demographic bottom beginning to drop out there upon opening. (Lawrence Heights is nearby, but too isolated--and ultimately, they got their own "ghetto mall" in the form of Lawrence Square.) Oh sure, you might as well go to the roots of the term "ghetto" by invoking the Jewish community; but in a way, they always were the subtle key to Yorkdale's success, practically from day one (a second Noshery restaurant, etc). Heck, in Toronto, Montreal, and elsewhere, them suburbanizing Semites were probably always ahead of the game in seeding early shopping plaza/mall culture (consider nearby Lawrence Plaza, perhaps the largest of its type in early-mid-50s Toronto, and the first to sport a suburban department store branch "anchor" to boot)

 

[mr airbus]

the end of Woodbine came about 6 years ago when Cadillac Fairview sold it to a private Isreali group.

When CF owned it the could "leverage" national tenancies by tying them to tenancies in better AAA malls. I.E. You want Eaton Centre...you must also take Woodbine.

Now that its independently owned, there is no leverage so the nationals days are numbered I would assume, particularly given the Woodbine Live project and the changing demographics.

 

[Dan416]

the end of Woodbine came about 6 years ago when Cadillac Fairview sold it to a private Isreali group.

When CF owned it the could "leverage" national tenancies by tying them to tenancies in better AAA malls. I.E. You want Eaton Centre...you must also take Woodbine.

Now that its independently owned, there is no leverage so the nationals days are numbered I would assume, particularly given the Woodbine Live project and the changing demographics.

If CF ever sells Erin Mills Town Centre, I could certainly see the same thing happening to it. It's not that the demographics for its market are bad, far frome it: it has the exact same catchment area as Square One, plus it's closer to Oakville, yet who goes to Erin Mills over Square One? Erin Mills has been in Square One's shadow for a long time and I don't know if that will ever change.

 

[adma]

And Erin Mills occupies a similar last-of-its-kind position in the 905 as Woodbine does in the 416. Afterwards, fashion and focus veered away from hub malls altogether: they were artifacts of the Debbie Gibson/Tiffany era...

 

[Dan416]

And Erin Mills occupies a similar last-of-its-kind position in the 905 as Woodbine does in the 416. Afterwards, fashion and focus veered away from hub malls altogether: they were artifacts of the Debbie Gibson/Tiffany era...

Luckily EMTC isn't in quite as bad as Woodbine. It's still got Gap, American Eagle, Aéropostale, Old Navy, H&M, Sears, The Bay, Zellers, Le Chateau, Jacob, SportChek, Bath & Body Works (before Square One no less!). I just think what they wanted was like a Sherway-esque mall but I don't think Erin Mills will ever be a Sherway. I don't get how Sherway can have so many high-end stores, but it doesn't really seem all that busy (compared to say, Yorkdale).

 

[DavidJamesTO]

Erin Mills was more fun when the mini-golf was still in the central hub and the chimes still worked on the clock. It's just more of the same nowadays.

Sherway benefits from its position at the hub of two of Toronto's busiest highways--427 and the QEW/Gardiner. That's a benefit for people in the west end of Toronto/east end of Mississauga who need a mall but don't want to go to Square one or go into Toronto for Eaton Centre or Yorkdale. I think it also acts as the 'out of town try-out' for many stores--it was home of the first Hollister and Abercrombie and Fitch in Canada.

 

[mr airbus]

Erin Mills and Promenade are certainly the leverage malls now.

Even Fairview seems to have taken on a life of its own.

Sherway's success, I think, is based on the fact that it is super accessible to Etobicoke, downtown, Oakville, and the rich part of Mississauga. Cadillac deemed it a "fashion mall" very early on (i.e. no anchor food store, mass merchant - Zellers or Walmart). The positioning is also more adult than Square 1 so it attracts people who spend money, not hang out. Although the stores feel empty, it is one of the top malls in Canada.

I think its the starting place for many US retailers because it feels and works like a US mall, its suburban, has highways near it, there isn't the ubiquitous Zellers unlike most other Canadian malls, and the lack of theatre and a transit hub keeps the rif-raf away.