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Ha ha, thanks Shon. Phoenix is, of course, misunderstood. I live here so I don't misunderstand it. There are certain things that even Toronto could learn from a place like this. Local artists, for one, do more than they do in Toronto to make the city a better place. I was at the opening of a gallery/diner in a poor Hispanic community and the artists were playing with the local kids and serving free hot dogs and corn to everyone on the street. It was quite the little party. Of course, Phoenix has more than its share of problems, and its gems are more hidden than other places, but to dismiss it as some soulless collection of tract housing in the desert is very ignorant.

Based on my experience in Phoenix, I wouldn't dismiss any city any more. From what I've heard and seen, Houston looks like a terrible place but if I knew the right people in town, I'm sure I'd have a good time and get to see people doing really interesting stuff for their city. One of the craziest nights I ever had was in Atlanta.

We are smug at our own peril. Do we want to perpetuate the stereotype of the arrogant Torontonian? How quickly do we forget that outsiders are always passing ignorant judgments about our city?
 
I lived in Atlanta for two years. It was a nightmare. I've visited almost every major US city (somehow I keep missing San Francisco and Boston) and still nothing compares to the hell that is Atlanta.

Bad planning, rampant racism (it's very subtle, but it's there), poor funding of anything (almost everything is privatized in the South), and just no chance of improving. The automobile rules there, as does libertarian policies.

I think Las Vegas comes in second to Atlanta.
 
I've heard the most awful things about Atlanta, whether they are true or not. But I remember someone describing it as a sprawling suburb with a few tall buildings in the middle. And I've heard you'd be hardpressed to find an area within city limits that are considered safe by Canadian standards.

And personally, I'd find any cities with a majority of conservative thinkers to be a bad city as far as I'm concerend. I think this would include places like Phoenix, Houston, and Atlanta.
 
Cooool said:
And I've heard you'd be hardpressed to find an area within city limits that are considered safe by Canadian standards.
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The majority of Atlanta is fine in terms of safety, as long as you weren't a pedestrian or bicyclist.
 
I'd just say Las Vegas isn't that bad. It's a casino town, so if you don't like casinos you wont like Las Vegas. But as far as casino towns go, LV is surprisingly habitable. Compare LV to Atlantic City or pretty much any other casino heavy region on Earth. They've done a lot to broaden the appeal of the place beyond the normal human detritus casinos attract by branching into things like the convention & trade-show business and more "family friendly" activities. Ultimately, the place's population nearly doubled during the 90s and was still going strong until the recent quagmire, so I would be leery of writing it off so cavalierly.

In general, people should avoid expecting every city to be the same. A City not fitting some anachronistic vision of perfect Greenwich Village urbanity isn't enough to discount millions of people moving into, and by most measures enjoying, these Cities. Not everyone will like them, but nobody has ever gotten anywhere by trying to please everyone.

Cooool said:
And personally, I'd find any cities with a majority of conservative thinkers to be a bad city as far as I'm concerend. I think this would include places like Phoenix, Houston, and Atlanta.
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First of all, just about every major US city votes Democratic. That includes places like Phoenix, Houston and Atlanta. Democrats more or less enjoy one-party rule over most major American cities (except for Mayor of NYC, for some reason).

More importantly though, that is just stupid. To each his own I guess, but I can't think of anything more pretensions and conceited than judging a city on such spurious grounds. Should we all leave London now because they elected a Tory as Mayor?
 
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Really? Why would someone like me want to be in a place where gay bars get raided (happened in Houston) and where people love their guns like their own children.

This is a normal attitude to have. I prefer the open-minded, progressive crowd. Not the exact opposite.
 
So, in your open mindedness you are intentionally blacklisting entire regions because you don't like the way they like guns? You do see the oxymoronic qualities to this, yes?
 
Whoaccio said:
So, in your open mindedness you are intentionally blacklisting entire regions because you don't like the way they like guns? You do see the oxymoronic qualities to this, yes?
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No. Don't make this into more than what it really is. I'm open-minded but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have a problem living in an ultra-conversative area in the Middle East. Let's not delude ourselves.

There's a difference between being open-minded and being passive.

I do have a problem with a country persecuting gays, embracing gun culture, and incorporating religion into the constitution. I'd be alarmed if any educated person didn't have a problem with these issues.
 
Whoaccio said:
Democrats more or less enjoy one-party rule over most major American cities (except for Mayor of NYC, for some reason).
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Democrat David Dinkins really turned off a lot of New Yorkers, and it didn't help that his Republican successor Giuliani was so successful.
 
Toledo OH, was there 15 years ago for a conference "down town" - went out for a long walk like I normally do on a Saturday, only found 3 places open - a "GoGo bar" (i.e. dancing with hostesses - not go go as in nudity), a gay bar, and some restaurant which I could not see the rest of through all the dirty dishes sitting on the table near the front. The rest of the downtown (other than the hotel) seemed to be boarded up. I started walking down one street for 30 minutes, finally found a corner store open - walked in - and they guy asks me if I was walking ... I said yes... and he said that that was probably a very poor decision. Actually, I think the criminals gave up on it and had left so I was not probably in any danger.

Also accidentally walked through Cabrini Greens (sp) in Chicago - little did the people teasing me about being on crack (do to looking in bad shape because I sleeping on the floor of my new apartment [pre-bed]) know that I was actually carrying around $1,500 USD in cash at the time :p (I was walking between my apartment to some store I found on a map that sold beds (and inbetween there was Cabrini Greens :p )
 
GenerationW said:
Democrat David Dinkins really turned off a lot of New Yorkers, and it didn't help that his Republican successor Giuliani was so successful.
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I don't really know why Bloomberg calls himself a Republican, anyway. He's very far removed from Republican policies and doesn't toe the line.
 
New Delhi is quite a disaster – a master-planned capital gone horribly wrong. Pollution like I have never seen before, extreme economic and social disparity, inadequate infrastructure and civic services, and parasitic sprawl that continues unabated as the urban population explodes.
 
Pretty much all of them, for different reasons.

The American model is a resounding failure and the Latin American model is even worse. I can't think of a modern Asian or Arabic city that I would posit as a success story. Naturally African cities are facing huge challenges as are all the centers in developing nations. That leaves you with Europe, which tends to consist of bankrupt industrial towns and posh centers ringed with neo-socialist cement. Even Paris, despite its delightful medieval and 18th century remnants, has social tension and racial separation on a level that simply does not exist in Toronto.

We may have got to where we are mostly by accident, but Toronto is the only city where I plan to live, rather than visit, work, travel, etc.
 
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