[condovo]

A surface reading might reveal that, perhaps, but I'd also factor in the fact that the 'left' very publicly wants to increase taxes to help fight homelessness and drug addiction while the 'right' believes that the current 'at the rate of inflation' canard is working just fine...

The left wants to spend other people's money.
The right wants to squeeze more efficiencies from wasteful government spending, to re-state an oft-used cliché.

Take your pick.

 

[Lenser]

Yonge has long had a garish, carny vibe. Its intensity ebbs and flows from era to era but in many ways it's essentially unchanged. It's a very public thoroughfare that's loud, brash and in your face. Some days I enjoy walking down the strip but most of the time I avoid it like the plague. Great for street-shooting though.

 

[Richard White]

Yonge has long had a garish, carny vibe. Its intensity ebbs and flows from era to era but in many ways it's essentially unchanged. It's a very public thoroughfare that's loud, brash and in your face. Some days I enjoy walking down the strip but most of the time I avoid it like the plague. Great for street-shooting though.

Personally I wish it was more like Regent Street in London.

 

[MetroMan]

Exactly. In my experience as gay dude, I don't always feel safe in YDS because of those people. They clearly hate me and it's just an unpleasant experience. Definitely would not hold another guys hand down there that's for sure.

Thanks for sharing your experience. As a white straight 6 ft tall dude, I've never really felt unsafe there, just annoyed. I can absolutely see that a gay couple walking by religious preachers or a woman walking by the misogynist preacher who insists that "women's place is in the home, serving their man".

There needs to be a limit on free speech. It's difficult to navigate but we have to figure that out as a society. In the short term, I like the idea of turning Dundas Square's security office into an off site mini Police Station. Times Square has one and there is ALWAYS a visible police presence, just cops going on patrol. They're not threatening, they're not approaching anyone, they're just walking around. It's reassuring and I'm sure it keeps some of the worst riff raff away.

 

[condovo]

Good summary. I’m in a bit from door number 1 and a little from door number 2.

I like the organic way in which Yonge Street has assembled and I like that it’s in Toronto’s spine where every type, rich and poor, every race and creed, every culture, every type of Torontonian bumps into one another like a tube everyone goes through before separating into their “own” spaces scattered around the city.

I don’t like that some people are abusing this space, insisting on standing out from the others and imposing themselves on others with loud speakers. Want to talk about your Jesus? Do so without forcing it on everyone else and dominating the space. This needs to stop. It’s selfish and it’s against the law.

I don’t recommend some crack down on Yonge to keep people moving along or kicking others out but I would like to see police and bylaw officers enforce the bylaws.

The YongeTOmmorrow will fix many of the other issues which have to do with widening the narrow sidewalks, adding trees and streetscaping.

I try my best to be a centrist, even though that's increasingly viewed as a "sellout" position by dogmatic ideologues on opposite ends of the political spectrum. I think Yonge/Dundas needs a mix of solutions, from policing to nuanced social-spending approaches on housing, mental health, addiction.

But, first, people (on the left) need to accept that there's a problem or, rather, acknowledge that some members of the community, including vulnerable folks, like seniors, women, lgbtq's, and not just "privileged" folks, have a right to believe there's a problem and, second, solutions need to happen ASAP and not be delayed endlessly for the perfect consensus. In other words, we need leadership, not dillydallying.

 

[Richard White]

There needs to be a limit on free speech. It's difficult to navigate but we have to figure that out as a society. In the short term, I like the idea of turning Dundas Square's security office into an off site mini Police Station. Times Square has one and there is ALWAYS a visible police presence, just cops going on patrol. They're not threatening, they're not approaching anyone, they're just walking around. It's reassuring and I'm sure it keeps some of the worst riff raff away.

Originally there was a police station inside the Eaton Centre. It was removed during one of the renovations in the late 90s/early 2000s. I get that 52 Division is down the street but they need to establish themselves in the square.

 

[Northern Light]

The left wants to spend other people's money.
The right wants to squeeze more efficiencies from wasteful government spending.

Take your pick.

While I agree that many see it this way or seem to find themselves in one camp or the other; I very much disagree with this 2 camps theology existing (not your describing of it).

I don't see why the two can't and shouldn't meet; I know they do in people like me.

My signature line is real; I am fiscally conservative (oppose deficits, prefer a government focus its energies, dislike corporate welfare, like efficient programs); but I am socialist, I support robust, expanded, universal healthcare, affordable/free, high-quality public education, a good pension system and high employment standards.

I had a discussion with a long-time friend who thinks he's a conservative, just before Christmas; He was sure he opposed high taxes and wanted them lower and so on.

I pointed out to him, with 3 kids, all school aged, he was receiving $39,000 in free public school tuition from government every year; never mind a National Child Benefit cheque well in excess of $10,000 per year. I pointed out to him he received more back from those 2 programs alone than he paid in taxes in a year, by a substantial margin.

That he'd have to sell his house if he had to pay out of pocket for those things.

That if he wasn't paying for them, in so far as he was getting more back than he was putting in; that I was the one subsidizing him (along with most others here); and the one in a higher tax bracket; he seemed amazed that if we cut taxes, he'd be poorer, while people better off than he would get the majority of the benefit.

****

Such myopia is not limited to 'The right'; ask any lefty how they would feel about their pre-teen daughter being out next to the needle-exchange/safe-use facility; or how much more they would really like to pay in taxes, for programs or services they might not benefit from............when they actually see the bill.........their mind often opens as well.

Funnily enough I don't so much advocate for a middle-ground, as an open-mind, and people looking at the evidence; and deciding where it takes policy/their vote from there.

There's room to understand that government can't do everything without deciding it should do nothing or less or only just about what it does now.

There's room to expect more of government, and better of government while understanding some of that should come from using existing dollars more wisely.

It's about finding the most effective ways to do things.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel, many cities/states/provinces/countries share our challenges, and many have found effective solutions.

While collectively they almost certainly require higher taxes that what we currently pay; that number isn't as high as many fear; and a surprising amount can be done if one spends dollars more wisely.

 

[condovo]

Exactly. In my experience as gay dude, I don't always feel safe in YDS because of those people. They clearly hate me and it's just an unpleasant experience. Definitely would not hold another guys hand down there that's for sure.

I've seen "visible" gay men and Orthodox Jews harassed in front of H&M. As a member of both communities who can "pass," it's extremely upsetting and intimidating. I wouldn't want to hold another guy's hand there or wear a kippa.

 

[Transportfan]

There needs to be a limit on free speech.

You want to ban criticizing homosexuality in public? That's one step closer to Big Brother-type tyranny.

 

[Richard White]

You want to ban criticizing homosexuality in public? That's one step closer to Big Brother-type tyranny.

There is a difference. I am all for free speech but I draw the line at offensive behaviour.

It's not like someone can walk into the Bathurst and Lawrence area calling people words that rhyme with Hike just because they are Jewish. You can't walk into Jane and Finch and call someone their "uncle".

Say what you like in your own home but when you are out in public shut your mouth or someone may end up causing it to be wired shut.

 

[stjames2queenwest]

Hate speech isn’t free speech.

 

[condovo]

Content aside, is screaming through a megaphone or microphone and obstructing pedestrians at one of Canada's busiest intersections considered free speech? In other words, is the free and unfettered delivery of free speech protected too? If not, maybe that's the way to get a handle on this without policing content, as hateful as it can be. How about a designated speakers' corner across the street in the square?

As for the other anti-social behaviour around Yonge/Dundas, we've got to get a handle on this city's growing opioid epidemic through more visible policing and more harm-reduction delivered by experienced and responsible--not dogmatic*--social-service and health agencies.

Flipping a "Twittersphere-progressive-left" middle finger at everyone and gaslighting them or telling them to get over it doesn't seem to me to be the way to go.

*Street Health's harm-reduction program-management, or lack thereof, over at Dundas and Sherbourne has been an unmitigated disaster for the surrounding neighbourhood.

 

[TheSix]

You want to ban criticizing homosexuality in public? That's one step closer to Big Brother-type tyranny.

Your argument is the same as supporting Nazi's preaching openly in Dundas Square.

 

[Isotack]

Your argument is the same as supporting Nazi's preaching openly in Dundas Square.

So you have lost the argument...when you go with the Nazi crap

 

[stjames2queenwest]

Honestly I am not into ANYTHING being yelled at me over a megaphone when I’m just trying to get from a) to b).