[Blovertis]

A silly decision. As has been pointed out, Dundas, by the standards of his time, was one of the good guys. He was an abolitionist but knew Wilberforce's bill had no chance of passing unless softening language was inserted. He backed a compromise on the logic that half a loaf was better than no loaf at all.

That said, I don't have any problem renaming the square, but why did it have to be something that has no relevance to Canada's history? We've missed a huge opportunity to pay tribute to the Indigenous people who first occupied this land.

Yet another disappointing move from Chow.

 

[junctionist]

I think it's great that they're looking for a new name, but the end result is puzzling. Did all the people getting outraged participate in the process, though?

Or did a good chunk of the population just dismiss the idea of renaming places with "Dundas" in the name and spend their spare time watching foreign movies, shopping for imported goods, and consuming foreign culture in general?

Frankly, I'm just as guilty of it as others. But I know we need to do better with our place names than merely honouring early colonists who didn't accomplish that much from a cultural perspective but happened to buy up a lot of land or just happen to be the first colonists in an area.

The point is that too few people invest themselves in local culture, resulting in a vacuum effect where you can get this sort of puzzling result. Instead of saying "let's not spend money on this" more people should have thought out a better name as a matter of cultural pride and sense of ownership. The ship has sailed on not changing the name. We need to do it more responsibly, since it should only happen once in a lifetime or even more rarely.

 

[afransen]

Downie Wenjack Square.

Replace the grey pavers with checkerboard floors. Big upgrade to the stage. Put a giant tophat with a feather in it at the Yonge/Dundas corner. Instant landmark. Celebrates the current cultural norms. Who would possibly oppose it?

This is a far better idea.

I am just appalled by this proposal from the city. Call it Toronto Square if we are that bereft of ideas if we are going to pick an entirely alien name for the square. Yes, Toronto has a fair number of residents of African heritage. How small a fraction of that community are Ghanaian or have any resonance with this term? This sounds like the kind of marketing nonsense that leads to rebranding of companies like Mondelez.

 

[cplchanb]

i find this renaming highly hypocritical. In deleting a so called slavery supporter they chose a name that is based on an ideal from a country that openly endorses criminalising LGBTQ, something that Toronto embraces.
not to mention in doing so they essentially are being shadow racists in their own right by ignoring other ethnic communities in the gta (asians, jews, slavs, south asians, caucasians etc). this is supposed to be a central square to symbolise
the collective toronto identity NOT just to appease BLM. they shouldve used a more inclusive neutral name like metro square, toronto square, even Ford square.

 

[ShonTron]

Henry Dundas has no connection to Toronto, to Canada, and we’re keeping the street name. Same with George Yonge. They’re names the colonial governor chose over 200 years ago. But since they’re very old names that until recently no one gave any thought to, it’s fine to keep them as long as we’re willing to reinterpret our history as we and society evolve.

Yonge-Dundas Square is a crappy name. It really is. I just called it Dundas Square anyway. We’ll get used to the name Sankofa Square and it will be fine.

My thoughts:

The continuing history of Dundas Street

Yonge-Dundas Square in early 2021 Nearly three years ago, I wrote about the complicated history of Toronto’s Dundas Street. Calls to rename the street, which honours Henry Dundas, 1st Viscoun…

seanmarshall.ca

 

[MrGoose]

Well @UtakataNoAnnex, the jury isn't out, it has decided. We've put up front page story here about it.

Frankly I'm glad they are not renaming the street (at least for the time being), the amount of disruption would be huge for that, and probably create far more ill-will than the four things they are renaming.

I think people need to get beyond focusing on the word Sankofa coming one particular country that they feel no particular attachment to. The point of the word is its meaning, in that it encompasses "learning from the past to build a better future." It says a lot in just seven letters. In that it comes from an African country, it recognizes that there are many Torontonians of African descent, and that not all of us came from Europe (the vast majority of names here recall Europe, and that's not changing anytime soon)... and for those who have forgotten, many of African descent who are here did not end up on this continent willingly. What is wrong with recalling that in a way that we can learn from it, and as the word Sankofa says "build a better future"? People tend to resist change, but it's not going to kill anyone to embrace a future that better recognizes everyone's individual worth.

42

1. How many people of African descent live in Toronto / GTA vs people of European, East Asian and South Asian descent?
2. Many of African descent who ended up in North America didn't come here willingly. Thats true. But how true is it for Canada?
   1. Going by the statistics that show 92% of Black Canadians are 1st or 2nd gen immigrants that number is going to be pretty low.
3. Sankofa means nothing to the vast majority of Torontonians and Canadians at large. Might as well have named it Cofurevewor or some other ChatGPT-esque name and told us that it means "build a better future"

 

[MrGoose]

I for one think we should rename the square to

Truth And Reconciliation Land Back Black Lives Matter End Asian Hate From The River To The Sea No Justice No Peace Build A Better Future Square.

T.A.R.L.B.B.L.M.E.A.H.F.T.R.T.T.S.N.J.N.P.B.A.B.F. Square

If theres a slogan I missed, let me know and I can tack it on. We don't want to alienate any causes at all.

 

[cplchanb]

1. How many people of African descent live in Toronto / GTA vs people of European, East Asian and South Asian descent?
2. Many of African descent who ended up in North America didn't come here willingly. Thats true. But how true is it for Canada?
   1. Going by the statistics that show 92% of Black Canadians are 1st or 2nd gen immigrants that number is going to be pretty low.
3. Sankofa means nothing to the vast majority of Torontonians and Canadians at large. Might as well have named it Cofurevewor or some other ChatGPT-esque name and told us that it means "build a better future"

yup in appeasing 1 small group theyve managed to marginalise almost every other ethnic group in Toronto... wonderful!

 

[picard102]

We’ll get used to the name Sankofa Square and it will be fine

Or we won't and it will be the next Rogers Centre.

 

[Admiral Beez]

...I do feel the name needs to be change however, along with the redesign of the whole Square...as the name change will do nothing to the inadequacies and glaring tackiness of the space, to put it mildly again.

Dundas Square smells like piss, the parking lot stairwells are a trap of vagrants and junkies. I’d rather we tear out the whole thing and build yet another condo. If we’re keeping it, the Square definitely needs to be redesigned and I’d be fine with naming it after whichever firms fund it, for example Times Square in Manhattan was named after the NYT newspaper after its own funded redevelopment of the area.

 

[mcbg1]

Nobody was even complaining about Dundas as a name except for a very small majority of people who will now find something else to be outraged about. This is being used as political PR for absolutely no good reason. At the same time, the city approves renaming a stadium after Rob Ford of all people. What an absolute farce.

 

[whatever]

This is a far better idea.

Let's go further. The garage gets replaced with a below grade exhibition space devoted to showcasing the history and contributions of Indigenous peoples to Toronto's history. Include an above ground pavilion (could be smaller, even just display windows) to highlight some present day Indigenous artists and issues. And we replace the current private "activations" with time for Indigenous programming. You'd have something special to/for Toronto there.

The Canada Day celebrations there would be legendary. It'd all have a certain sankofa to it

 

[ProjectEnd]

Dundas Square smells like piss, the parking lot stairwells are a trap of vagrants and junkies. I’d rather we tear out the whole thing and build yet another condo. If we’re keeping it, the Square definitely needs to be redesigned and I’d be fine with naming it after whichever firms fund it, for example Times Square in Manhattan was named after the NYT newspaper after its own funded redevelopment of the area.

What are you talking about? Times Square was indeed named after the paper, which briefly had its office there from 1904 to 1913, but what "funded redevelopment of the area" did they undertake in the early Twentieth Century?

 

[Admiral Beez]

What are you talking about?

We're taking about Times Square. You may not agree with my point, but is the subject matter unclear?

 

[artyboy123]

Dundas Square smells like piss, the parking lot stairwells are a trap of vagrants and junkies. I’d rather we tear out the whole thing and build yet another condo. If we’re keeping it, the Square definitely needs to be redesigned and I’d be fine with naming it after whichever firms fund it, for example Times Square in Manhattan was named after the NYT newspaper after its own funded redevelopment of the area.

The city doesn't really care about maintaining such a place as they are prioritizing renaming instead of addressing the ongoing problem of loitters, unruly behaviours and safety.