[BMO]

I used to take Viva Purple. During the strike I started taking the GO bus instead. I pay a fraction more and I get to my destination in less than 50% of the time Purple takes.

I don't think I'm going back unless there is a GO service interruption. Purple has just gotten too bogged down by routes that go through slow areas of town (Bathurst/Centre) while the GO just hops on the 407 and blasts through. And with the fare increase that is coming in January, the cost premium for using GO will be even less than before.

I'm also able to get student pricing for the GO bus, which further helps to justify the cost. I think I literally pay $1 more. Worth it for me. Sorry YRT. I might start using the YRT again if they improve connections to GO stations. Until then, I drive to the station and bus from there. I no longer have time to play games with YRT and Viva buses not co-operating and not waiting for transfers at intersections.

VIVA Purple has some ridiculously close stops all along the route. Hte whole stretch between Bayview and Leslie, for instance, has a full BRT stop every block it's so dumb. The traffic on Bathurst between steeles and Highway 7 is horrible so the bus route always gets stuck in that section, and then the Left turn onto Keele from 7 is a guaranteed wait of at least 2 or 3 cycles before getting around. Once the rapidways are in place, though, these issues should be all reduced substantially.

 

[xtremesniper]

VIVA Purple has some ridiculously close stops all along the route. Hte whole stretch between Bayview and Leslie, for instance, has a full BRT stop every block it's so dumb. The traffic on Bathurst between steeles and Highway 7 is horrible so the bus route always gets stuck in that section, and then the Left turn onto Keele from 7 is a guaranteed wait of at least 2 or 3 cycles before getting around. Once the rapidways are in place, though, these issues should be all reduced substantially.

Maybe, but once the rapidways are in place, Purple will no longer turn left on Keele. It will continue on 7 until VCC so that people have to transfer onto the TTC subway to go down to York. And those people will have to pay double-fare because the subway will be TTC fare zone.

Because of that ridiculousness, I'd imagine I'm still going to be using GO long after the subway is done if I ever have to frequent York again in the future. What they are doing by killing the southern orientation of Purple is stupid, and I don't support it. It means the route is more expensive for students and you have to go further west just to reach the subway station, and wait for a transfer to go back south-east toward campus. Waste.

 

[reaperexpress]

Maybe, but once the rapidways are in place, Purple will no longer turn left on Keele. It will continue on 7 until VCC so that people have to transfer onto the TTC subway to go down to York. And those people will have to pay double-fare because the subway will be TTC fare zone.

Because of that ridiculousness, I'd imagine I'm still going to be using GO long after the subway is done if I ever have to frequent York again in the future. What they are doing by killing the southern orientation of Purple is stupid, and I don't support it. It means the route is more expensive for students and you have to go further west just to reach the subway station, and wait for a transfer to go back south-east toward campus. Waste.

This really isn't an issue with the routing or infrastructure, it's an issue with the fare structure. If the TTC accepted YRT fare on the segment from VMC to York, people would be just as well off as they are today.

It wouldn't be a hard thing to set up for Presto users, but it would require adding Presto readers at exit gates in stations in the dual-fare zone.

For YRT -> TTC:
- Deduct TTC fare when they tap on at VMC, and refund it if they tap off at York.

TTC -> YRT:
- Deduct TTC fare when they tap on at York, and refund it if they tap on YRT/Viva within an hour.

A similar setup could be implemented for people getting to York on GO buses at 407 and the Barrie Line at Downsview Park)

Alternatively, they could put on some kind of rule like "when you transfer from another agency, you can go 3 subway stops for free". That way people could get to York from YRT/Viva (VMC), GO bus (407) or GO Train (Downsview Park) without paying a full TTC fare to go a couple stops. It would also avoid the need for people working in North York Centre to pay a TTC fare just to get there from YRT. The potential issue with this idea is that it could cram the subway at Union with people going only a few blocks into the Financial District.

It's rather silly that one of the main objections to the multi-billion dollar infrastructure investment is about the proposed operation. Especially since the proposed fare structure counteracts the goals of the project (increase transit ridership, make transit attractive)

 

[ShonTron]

Maybe, but once the rapidways are in place, Purple will no longer turn left on Keele. It will continue on 7 until VCC so that people have to transfer onto the TTC subway to go down to York. And those people will have to pay double-fare because the subway will be TTC fare zone.

This really isn't an issue with the routing or infrastructure, it's an issue with the fare structure. If the TTC accepted YRT fare on the segment from VMC to York, people would be just as well off as they are today.

I've made inquiries about this situation, and the fare structure for the subway and GO/YRT/BT connections to York U have not yet been decided. The reason why so many TTC, GO, YRT/Viva and Brampton Zum buses go to York U is because it is such a huge trip generator. By being such a major demand point, it functions secondarily as a transfer point between multiple agencies. It is no secret that York U administrators want the buses off the campus, so Steeles West, Highway 407 and Vaughan Centre Stations will pick up the slack, perhaps only with the 41 Keele and 106 York University routes entering the grounds (maybe the YRT version of the 107 Keele North, but who knows?). Obviously there needs to be a fare structure in place so that the students and staff forced to make a new transfer to GO, Viva or Zum aren't financially penalized, but no agreement or framework has yet been decided.

 

[xtremesniper]

It's rather silly that one of the main objections to the multi-billion dollar infrastructure investment is about the proposed operation. Especially since the proposed fare structure counteracts the goals of the project (increase transit ridership, make transit attractive)

I'm not objecting to the building of the subway just because of fares. I'm glad something is being built in this region. However, I'm merely pointing out that while it may prove to be useful for people originating their rides in TTC zone, it will be of no use for York Region citizens (you know, the ones paying for everything north of Steeles?) if they go with the fare structure that screws people over as they currently do with the Steeles double fare. And as such, I would avoid using the service altogether, which I can only imagine is the opposite effect they were hoping for.

I've made inquiries about this situation, and the fare structure for the subway and GO/YRT/BT connections to York U have not yet been decided. The reason why so many TTC, GO, YRT/Viva and Brampton Zum buses go to York U is because it is such a huge trip generator. By being such a major demand point, it functions secondarily as a transfer point between multiple agencies. It is no secret that York U administrators want the buses off the campus, so Steeles West, Highway 407 and Vaughan Centre Stations will pick up the slack, perhaps only with the 41 Keele and 106 York University routes entering the grounds (maybe the YRT version of the 107 Keele North, but who knows?). Obviously there needs to be a fare structure in place so that the students and staff forced to make a new transfer to GO, Viva or Zum aren't financially penalized, but no agreement or framework has yet been decided.

I'm glad they haven't finalized anything yet because they need to realize that by 2015, Presto should be fully integrated into the TTC operations and reaperexpress' suggestions can become much more feasible at that point.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Maybe, but once the rapidways are in place, Purple will no longer turn left on Keele. It will continue on 7 until VCC so that people have to transfer onto the TTC subway to go down to York. And those people will have to pay double-fare because the subway will be TTC fare zone.

I think others have already addressed it but really you're basing your concerns on something purely hypothetical.

Call me an optimist but I find it highly unlikely that will be the fare situation circa 2016. Karen Stintz was speaking at York U the other week and basically acknowledged they have to figure out a new fare system before the extension opens and everyone seems to know Presto is a key to that so...I wouldn't be too worried about that likelihood. (One would like to believe something so obvious will be remedied long before the train opens but with these guys, I grant you it's not always a safe bet...)

 

[nfitz]

Call me an optimist but I find it highly unlikely that will be the fare situation circa 2016. Karen Stintz was speaking at York U the other week and basically acknowledged they have to figure out a new fare system before the extension opens and everyone seems to know Presto is a key to that so...I wouldn't be too worried about that likelihood. (One would like to believe something so obvious will be remedied long before the train opens but with these guys, I grant you it's not always a safe bet...)

Presumably GO will pay TTC a subsidy for each GO rider that takes GO to Black Creek Pioneer Village station, Highway 407 station, or Vaughan Mafia Centre station and continues to York University - in the same manner they are already subsidizing TTC for each rider who takes the 38 Highland Creek bus from Rouge Hill GO station to UT Scarborough, and just flashes their Presto card or GO ticket.

Not sure how they will differentiate between those just taking the subway to York University, and those who go much further ... perhaps a voluntary tap off machine at York University station, so if you tap off there, you get a refund on your Presto if you've travelled on GO, but if you use it otherwise, it doesn't give you anything back. Doesn't seem that complex. And we've already got the precedent of GO passengers travelling free on TTC to complete journeys to educational institutions.

Though why York University students would get a free ride, and UT students don't ... I don't know ... though presumably the GO fare is slightly higher for those travelling from (wherever) to York University as it would be to Highway 7/Jane.

 

[nfitz]

I noticed that TTC in it's efficiency has managed to wipe any information about the use of GO media to travel from Rouge Hill to UT Scarborough. The pilot project was described at http://www.ttc.ca/Service_Advisories/Service_changes/Sep38.jsp - is currently cached at http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...e_changes/Sep38.jsp+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca where it says:

Special fare arrangement

GO Transit and TTC will begin on a trial basis, effective September 1, 2012, a special fare arrangement to enable GO Transit rail customers to travel between Rouge Hill GO Station and the University of Toronto Scarborough campus. They would do so on TTC 38 HIGHLAND CREEK buses, upon presentation of a valid GO fare. This is described in general terms below:

GO Transit customers would be permitted to board 38 Highland Creek buses (7 days a week) at the TTC bus stops westbound at Rouge Hill GO Station or eastbound at the University of Toronto at Scarborough campus with a valid GO Transit fare media. This would grant them the right to travel, at no extra charge, between Rouge Hill GO Station and the University of Toronto at Scarborough campus only;

This fare arrangement is not in effect at any other TTC bus stops or on any other TTC bus routes;

Customers boarding/alighting at Rouge Hill GO Station shall have or will be making a connection with the GO Train on the same valid GO fare media;

This pilot project is effective September 1, 2012 to April 27, 2013.​

Perhaps a similar arranged is possible for York University once GO buses can no longer enter campus.

 

[ShonTron]

I noticed that TTC in it's efficiency has managed to wipe any information about the use of GO media to travel from Rouge Hill to UT Scarborough. The pilot project was described at http://www.ttc.ca/Service_Advisories/Service_changes/Sep38.jsp - is currently cached at http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...e_changes/Sep38.jsp+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca where it says:

Special fare arrangement

GO Transit and TTC will begin on a trial basis, effective September 1, 2012, a special fare arrangement to enable GO Transit rail customers to travel between Rouge Hill GO Station and the University of Toronto Scarborough campus. They would do so on TTC 38 HIGHLAND CREEK buses, upon presentation of a valid GO fare. This is described in general terms below:

GO Transit customers would be permitted to board 38 Highland Creek buses (7 days a week) at the TTC bus stops westbound at Rouge Hill GO Station or eastbound at the University of Toronto at Scarborough campus with a valid GO Transit fare media. This would grant them the right to travel, at no extra charge, between Rouge Hill GO Station and the University of Toronto at Scarborough campus only;

This fare arrangement is not in effect at any other TTC bus stops or on any other TTC bus routes;

Customers boarding/alighting at Rouge Hill GO Station shall have or will be making a connection with the GO Train on the same valid GO fare media;

This pilot project is effective September 1, 2012 to April 27, 2013.​

Perhaps a similar arranged is possible for York University once GO buses can no longer enter campus.

This is a great idea, as the 38 is the least busy east of UTSC. I wonder though if TTC drivers will accept a flash of a Presto card at UTSC as the 10 ride tickets have been abolished. GO already has arrangements to provide free TTC travel to customers stranded by a train interuption.

 

[nfitz]

I wonder though if TTC drivers will accept a flash of a Presto card at UTSC as the 10 ride tickets have been abolished.

Chris Upfold implied they take Presto when we were teasing him on Twitter about ways to game the system on September 5th. He said it's the same protocol as they have with GO for train interruptions.

Presumably the TTC driver simply counts the number of people who board flashing either a Prestocard or ticket at either the UT Scarborough eastbound or Rouge Hill stop, and reports it. Would need something a bit more sophisticated to deal with York - but a voluntary tap-off machine seems easy.

 

[gweed123]

Building the rapidways is a good way to reserve ROW for any future upgrade of the route, be it light rail or elevated metro.

Exactly. Costs less than LRT or elevated metro to build, widens the roadway out to the needed width, and allows ridership to grow along the corridor. It's a tried and tested concept: build a mode of transit that can carry the current and short/medium term projected ridership, and when ridership exceeds that, upgrade the corridor to handle more. Toronto did it with the Yonge and Bloor streetcars, and Ottawa is doing it now with the Transitway.

 

[taal]

Sure, light rail, many many many years from now ... it would be ridiculous now, check out the ridership on viva purple / pink (Hi-way 1 bus), last I checked the total didn't even crack 10K.

But I agree they provide much more bang for the buck, and may really help make transit along Hi-way 7 more desirable ... because honestly now its now .... I used to take the viva puprle to work, loved it ! The rapid ways should make it much faster.


Anyway, drive a long Hi-way 7, a lot of the construction is done, I'd imagine a good portion (at least 50%) is spent now.

 

[sixrings]

I was at Leslie and 7 the other day. First time I saw the VIVA BRT. Let me tell you as a Torontonian I am extremely jealous. Maybe I don't want BRT for Finch, Yonge, Don Mills, or Sheppard but Id live it on places like Kipling, Islington, Steeles, Kennedy, Lawrence east and Kingston.

 

[taal]

hehe, well there's no BRT yet ... its still under construction, and not much to see yet. Having said that, they're re-doing all sidewalks along 7 ... look really good so far, they're using some stone pattern, at least near the intersections, not sure if its all like that. Tons of tree plantings as well.

 

[wolfewood]

hehe, well there's no BRT yet ... its still under construction, and not much to see yet. Having said that, they're re-doing all sidewalks along 7 ... look really good so far, they're using some stone pattern, at least near the intersections, not sure if its all like that. Tons of tree plantings as well.

It was quite lovely to see when I visited my friend near Valleymede, though I got so confused trying to find the stop to take me back west lol. I also found it so weird to be on a nearly true highway (7) while being beside another one (407).

It should be pretty nice when all is finished, might help funnel a few more suckers to York everyday... man this school is making me bitter.