[futureurbanplanner]

I personally am undecided about whether Viva was a success or failure, however impending service cuts for next year don't help Viva's case. York Region has released their 2013 service plan, which you can read here. Below is a summary I have written about the changes, as the documents are long and very large to download.

1 “Highway 7â€: Eastbound service along Church St discontinued at all times. Eastbound service will stay on Highway 7 between Main St Markham and 9t
h Line.

2A “14th Aveâ€: 8:16 pm and 8:50 pm westbound trips discontinued. 8:47 pm eastbound trip discontinued.

4/4A “Major Mackenzieâ€: Route restructured. Route 4 to operate between Vaughan Mills Terminal and Bayview Ave (Walmart Plaza), seven days a week. Service west of Jane St discontinued. Route 4A to operate between Harding Blvd and Markham-Stouffville Hospital, seven days a week. Service to Mount Joy GO Stn discontinued. Service in the Hillmount Rd area discontinued (replaced by route 24D/224D).

7 “Martin Groveâ€: Weekday service south of Humber College discontinued. Route will service new bus loop at Humber College. Increased weekday frequency due to shorter route length.

18 “Bur Oakâ€: 7:17 pm, 8:47 pm, and 9:17 pm westbound trips discontinued. 6:46 pm, 8:17 pm, and 9:17 pm eastbound trips discontinued.

NEW 21 “Vellore Localâ€: New route to replace discontinued 85B and 4A service. From Vaughan Mills Terminal: west on Rutherford, north on Vellore Woods, west on Ashbury and Davos, north on Vellore, east on Major Mackenzie, north on Weston, east on Retreat, south on Cityview, west on Major Mackenzie, reverse routing back to Vaughan Mills Terminal. Route operates every 30 minutes during rush hours only.

22/22A “King Cityâ€: Route 22 to divert via Vista Gt, Ravineview Blvd, and Kirby Rd during rush hours to replace discontinued Route 107F service. Provide more Route 22A service during rush hours. (Note: the map for the proposed service shows the 22 returning to full service, and the 22A returning to limited service. I believe this is a mistake as there is nothing in the document that describes this change.)

32 “Aurora Southâ€: Dial-a-Ride service on weekday evenings and all day Saturday maintained, but stand-by vehicles are eliminated. May cause increased wait time for Dial-a-Ride service.

33/33A “Wellingtonâ€: Route 33A service restructured to run via John West Way, Hollidge Blvd, Hollandview Tr, Bridgenorth Dr, Earl Stewart Dr, Gateway Dr, St. John’s Sdrd, and Mavrinac Blvd. Service on Borealis Dr, Conover Ave, Pedersen Dr, and Bayview Ave discontinued. Span of service on Route 33/33A maintained.

35D “Janeâ€: Service to operate during rush hours only. Midday, evening, and Saturday service discontinued.

37D “Islingtonâ€: Route discontinued.

40 “Unionville Localâ€: Maintain Dial-a-Ride service during weekday and Saturday evenings. Friday evening stand-by vehicle eliminated.

41 “Markham Localâ€: Maintain Dial-a-Ride service during weekday and Saturday evenings. Friday evening stand-by vehicle eliminated.

44 “Woodspring-Bristolâ€: Expand Dial-a-Ride service to include Route 52 (weekday and Saturday evenings) and Route 58A (weekday evenings).

51 “Keswick Localâ€: Route restructured to run between Queensway/Ravenshoe and Metro/Simcoe via Woodbine Ave. Service discontinued on Joe Dales Dr, Thornlodge Dr, Dovedale Dr, Lowndes Ave, Biscayne Blvd, Ferncroft Dr, Highcastle Ave, Old Homestead Rd, and portions of The Queensway S and Metro Rd. Service to Keswick HS provided by limited service diversions on Biscayne Blvd. Midday frequency improved to 40 minutes.

52 “Holland Landingâ€: 5:51 am northbound trip and 5:56 am southbound trip discontinued. Service after 7:00 pm on weekdays and Saturdays replaced by Dial-a-Ride service.

58/58A “Leslie/Mt. Albert via Lesileâ€: Route 58 discontinued. Route 58A service maintained. Rush hour 58A frequency improved to 70 minutes. Midday frequency improved. 10:20 pm northbound trip and 10:45 southbound trip replaced by Dial-a-Ride service.

59 “The ROCâ€: Route extension to Keswick Marketplace (Woodbine/Glenwoods). Seasonal service to The ROC between Keswick Marketplace and Pefferlaw Lions Community Centre on Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays and Holidays. Service approximately every 100 minutes.

NEW 80 “Elgin Millsâ€: Route runs Monday to Saturday between Elgin West CC (at Bathurst St and Shaftsbury Ave) and Woodbine Ave. Route replaces a portion of Route 90 service. Service will operate every 30 minutes during rush hours and every 45 minutes during midday, evening, and on Saturday. No Sunday or holiday service.

82 “Valleymede-Spadinaâ€: Midday service discontinued. Route operates during rush hours only.

83/83A “Trenchâ€: Route 83 Saturday service discontinued. Route 83 operates on weekdays only. Route 83A continues to operate during rush hours only.

84A/84C “Oak Ridgesâ€: Dial-a-Ride service on weekday midday and evenings and all day Saturday maintained, but stand-by vehicle is eliminated. May cause increased wait time for Dial-a-Ride service.

85/85A/85B “Rutherford/16th Avenueâ€: Route restructured. Route 85 to provide service between Bathurst St and Markham-Stouffville Hospital. Route 85A to provide service between Napa Valley Ave and Yonge St via Vaughan Mills Terminal. Route 85B discontinued. Service in Fossil Hill and Vellore Woods area replaced by NEW Route 21 “Vellore Localâ€. Service in Beaver Creek area replaced by reinstated Route 244 “Beaver Creek Shuttleâ€.

90/90B “Leslieâ€: Route 90B weekday evening service (after 8:00 pm) discontinued. Route 90 service along Elgin Mills Rd (Between Elgin West CC and Leslie St) discontinued and replaced by NEW Route 80 “Elgin Millsâ€. All Route 90 service runs to and from Richmond Green SS. Passengers will be required to transfer between Route 90 and Route 80 at Leslie St and Elgin Mills Rd.

98/99 “Yonge†(late evening service): Weekday frequency adjusted to every 35 minutes between 10:30 pm and 3:30 am.

99 “Yongeâ€: Weekday frequency adjusted to every 32 minutes between 10:30 am and 2:00 pm.

107B/C/D/F “Keele Northâ€: Route 107F discontinued. Route 22 modified to run via Vista Gt, Ravineview Blvd, and Kirby Rd during rush hours.

201 “Markham GO Shuttleâ€: Second morning trip (to GO station) discontinued. Second or third evening trip (from GO station) discontinued.

203 “Milliken GO Shuttleâ€: Second morning trip (to GO station) discontinued. Second-last evening trip (from GO station) discontinued. All other trips maintained.

222 “Newmarket-Aurora GO Shuttleâ€: Route discontinued.

223 “Newmarket GO Shuttleâ€: Route discontinued.

224C/224D “Victoria Park Northâ€: Route 224C service west of Woodbine Ave discontinued. Route 224D service west of Woodbine Ave (in Allstate Pkwy area) discontinued.

241 “Beverly Acres GO Shuttleâ€: First two southbound trips (to GO station) in the morning discontinued. Last northbound trip (from GO Station) in the evening discontinued. All other trips maintained.

242 “North Richvale GO Shuttleâ€: Route discontinued.

Reinstated 244 “Beaver Creek Shuttleâ€: Route operates during rush hours only on a clockwise loop around the Beaver Creek and Commerce Valley business parks. Service provided every 30 minutes. From 16th Ave and Leslie St: east on 16th, south on Mural, south on East Beaver Creek, south and west on Commerce Valley E, west and north on Commerce Valley W, north on West Beaver Creek, north on Granton, east on 16th to Leslie. Service on Leek Cres, East Wilmot St, East Pearce St, and Leslie St discontinued.

404 “Father McGivney HS Specialâ€: Route discontinued.

409 “Markham DHS Specialâ€: Route discontinued.

414 “Unionville HS/Bill Crothers HS/Markham DHS Specialâ€: Route discontinued.

422 “Huron Heights HS Specialâ€: Route discontinued.

Viva green: Last two weekday morning northbound trips from Don Mills Stn (10:07 am and 10:25 am) discontinued.

Viva orange: Service between York U and Downsview Stn to operate during rush hours only. Service between York U and Downsview Stn discontinued during weekday midday and evening, and all day Saturday, Sunday, and holiday. Service on route reduced to match service on Brampton Züm 501. Passengers traveling to Downsview Stn during non-rush must use TTC services.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Are you suggesting that 2010 saw higher ridership for YRT than 2011? Because it didn't.

No, I said the opposite. I said that they hit a record in 2011, despite not operating most of their service for 3 months. Partly we're talking about some apples and oranges here.

With the takeover of GO routes and spending on $180 million on the first phase of VIVA, even YRT expected accelerated growth of YRT ridership and instead the rate of growth has only declined. The growth since VIVA has consistantly failed to meet YRT's own predictions, which means less fare revenue, budget shortfalls, and constant service cuts.

I partly agree. Still, looking at those projections, it's pretty clear they were overly ambitious. I still don't think 21M riders in 2012 is anything to sneeze at; that's tripling ridership since YRT was created just over 10 years ago.

They were calling it "BRT" from the beginning and the fact is they spent $180 million dollars. With so much money spent, YRT should be the fastest growing system, and indeed YRT's own projections of growth were higher than any other system in the GTA, but it didn't come true. Which is why they have been basically constantly cutting service since VIVA.

Well, it was obviously not real BRT since they didn't have their own lanes. They knew they would have to get it running a few years before they had the bus lanes so it's been BRT-lite or an express system or whatever you want to call it. The capital funding was provincial and for rapid transit, specifically, so it's not like it would have gone to YRT anyway. It was supposed to be a "quick win" not a complete solution.

I understand that, on the operating side they may have to move things around but that's also part of taking the system from the hodgepodge it used to be into something more coherent.

Based on the evidence, I think VIVA is not only a failure, but I also think it has been detrimental to transit in York Region as a whole. But that's just my opinion I guess.

And you're entitled to it! I think the projections you highlighted were never realistic and so it's a failure in that sense.

I still think it's a system adapting to Viva and it will be fairer to assess things post-2015 when the buses are finally running in their own lanes AND interfacing with the subway. In a young community (demographically, and in terms of its transit use) it's not really fair to evaluate it this early.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

My beef with VIVA is that the service along hwy 7 has very little developments directly fronting the highway, for that matter there are few that even address the highway as other than an entrance point to their massive parking lot and their signage. Most anything along hwy 7 is minimum 250 m away from the highway proper.

In that sense, for Viva to succeed it depended on connection routes to provide transferring riders. Much like most of the TTC subway depends on connection routes to provide riders. Per the argument made earlier, the fact that YRT must now cut services on other non-VIVA routes simply to maintain VIVA service levels means that the entire system is catabolizing itself under the needs of VIVA. All while other areas of York region have grown just as quickly if not more and brought congestion, Rutherford Rd. 16'th ave is now just as bad as hwy 7 was 15 yrs ago and yet gets only measely bus service.

Without connecting feeder routes VIVA will be a net drain on the YRT budget not a net gain.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

For those routes that I am familiar with...

4/4A “Major Mackenzie”: Route restructured. Route 4 to operate between Vaughan Mills Terminal and Bayview Ave (Walmart Plaza), seven days a week. Service west of Jane St discontinued. Route 4A to operate between Harding Blvd and Markham-Stouffville Hospital, seven days a week. Service to Mount Joy GO Stn discontinued. Service in the Hillmount Rd area discontinued (replaced by route 24D/224D).

7 “Martin Grove”: Weekday service south of Humber College discontinued. Route will service new bus loop at Humber College. Increased weekday frequency due to shorter route length.

NEW 21 “Vellore Local”: New route to replace discontinued 85B and 4A service. From Vaughan Mills Terminal: west on Rutherford, north on Vellore Woods, west on Ashbury and Davos, north on Vellore, east on Major Mackenzie, north on Weston, east on Retreat, south on Cityview, west on Major Mackenzie, reverse routing back to Vaughan Mills Terminal. Route operates every 30 minutes during rush hours only.

37D “Islington”: Route discontinued.

85/85A/85B “Rutherford/16th Avenue”: Route restructured. Route 85 to provide service between Bathurst St and Markham-Stouffville Hospital. Route 85A to provide service between Napa Valley Ave and Yonge St via Vaughan Mills Terminal. Route 85B discontinued. Service in Fossil Hill and Vellore Woods area replaced by NEW Route 21 “Vellore Local”. Service in Beaver Creek area replaced by reinstated Route 244 “Beaver Creek Shuttle”.

Viva orange: Service between York U and Downsview Stn to operate during rush hours only. Service between York U and Downsview Stn discontinued during weekday midday and evening, and all day Saturday, Sunday, and holiday. Service on route reduced to match service on Brampton Züm 501. Passengers traveling to Downsview Stn during non-rush must use TTC services.

There really isn't much along Major Mackenzie West of Jane so I think this makes sense. There are some new subdivisions going up West of Weston rd., the issue then becomes where to place the terminus of the route since there is little development around Pine Valley until you reach Islington. And Islington already has service.

There again really was no purpose of having the Martin Grove bus serve anything south of Humber college. I mean if people were going to shop at the woodbine centre they were most likely going to drive, regardless of bus service. So I agree with this.

The Vellore local route would be better served by a better Jane st or Weston rd. route. Much as I'd love to see Vaughan Mills mall become a hub for transfers this route provides no benefit except for getting to Vaughan mills.

37D was a mistake that should have been canned long ago.

85 is likely the most difficult route to plan in the region. There are soo many competing needs and demand levels that I don't think it can ever be done completely right, maybe a VIVA style BRT would do. Ideally I'd have it be one continuous route and acting as a trunk route.

VIVA orange is seriously being kneecapped. Service to Downsview station was one of it's draws, I wonder if this has anything to do with TTC denying them access to the busway between York and Downsview because not many people got on or off between the two. *Note* I've since learned that VIVA has access to the busway, my mistake. Please disregard.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Highway? It's a highway in name only.

Oi Vey. Who's on First? I don't know, Third base!!!

It's called Highway 7 how do you suggest I refer to a stretch of asphalt if I can't use it's name?

 

[ShonTron]

VIVA orange is seriously being kneecapped. Service to Downsview station was one of it's draws, I wonder if this has anything to do with TTC denying them access to the busway between York and Downsview because not many people got on or off between the two.

Viva Orange is using the busway, which is pretty much necessary due to the clusterfook of construction at Keele and Finch right now. It's a shame though that Viva service between York U and Downsvieew is now almost non-existant. The long, winding walk between the Zum/YRT shelters and the TTC stops is not pleasant - but that's your alternative, transferring to the 196.

 

[nfitz]

BTW, what's the current rules for TTC passengers travelling from York U to Downsview station. Can they board VIVA and Zum with TTC pass?

Though anytime I've done it, there's always been a 196 at-hand ...

 

[doady]

VIVA Orange only sees 2,500 boardings per weekday now - only slightly better than VIVA Green before it got cut (~1,500). The ridership just isn't there to support such a level of service. Plus, now there's Zum, and eventually the subway extension... In the future, HIGHWAY 7 in Vaughan would probably be better served by VIVA Purple instead of Orange.

I partly agree. Still, looking at those projections, it's pretty clear they were overly ambitious. I still don't think 21M riders in 2012 is anything to sneeze at; that's tripling ridership since YRT was created just over 10 years ago.

Well, the ridership improved significantly for sure. Of course that should be commended, especially in light of the recession. But I think it could have improved even more if they done things differently.

I was just suggesting that maybe VIVA has handicapped the system. When they budget YRT+VIVA for a certain amount of riders but the riders don't materialize, I think that's a large part of why they cut so much service and are still cutting. And then there are the aggressive fare increases - another consequence of failed ridership expectations, imo.

The ridership projections were never realistic as you say, but they did sort of plan their transit service around those projections. VIVA wasn't just a large capital expense, it was also a massive service increase, and that means a massive operating expense. If the ridership doesn't increase proportionally, that's a major problem, and I think you can see it in all these service cuts.

 

[smallspy]

VIVA orange is seriously being kneecapped. Service to Downsview station was one of it's draws, I wonder if this has anything to do with TTC denying them access to the busway between York and Downsview because not many people got on or off between the two.

How do you figure that the TTC is denying them access? YRT has been using the busway between Keele and Dufferin for quite some time, well over a year in fact.

The issue with the busway now is that YRT needed to get permission from York U. to use the section between Murray Ross and The Commons - which they have had since July.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[BMO]

VIVA Orange only sees 2,500 boardings per weekday now - only slightly better than VIVA Green before it got cut (~1,500). The ridership just isn't there to support such a level of service. Plus, now there's Zum, and eventually the subway extension... In the future, HIGHWAY 7 in Vaughan would probably be better served by VIVA Purple instead of Orange.



Well, the ridership improved significantly for sure. Of course that should be commended, especially in light of the recession. But I think it could have improved even more if they done things differently.

I was just suggesting that maybe VIVA has handicapped the system. When they budget YRT+VIVA for a certain amount of riders but the riders don't materialize, I think that's a large part of why they cut so much service and are still cutting. And then there are the aggressive fare increases - another consequence of failed ridership expectations, imo.

The ridership projections were never realistic as you say, but they did sort of plan their transit service around those projections. VIVA wasn't just a large capital expense, it was also a massive service increase, and that means a massive operating expense. If the ridership doesn't increase proportionally, that's a major problem, and I think you can see it in all these service cuts.

You do realize that York Region Transit comprises more than 8 municipalities. Unlike Brampton transit, which only focuses on one (maybe two or three).

VIVA is a necessity to link all parts of the region together as a backbone, not to mention it's densist parts are in direct competition with TTC service, and there is a certain extent to which it is definitely much more appealing to drive to a TTC subway station and then take it down instead of waiting 30 minutes for a bus to take 5km to the station.

VIVA is one of the greatest marketing campaigns for transit i've seen. When I was growing up in York Region, they really made it quite appealing. To this day, I would prefer to take VIVA over any other bus in the GTA.

While it is true frequencies on other routes may not be desireable at the cost of providing VIVA, I think VIVA offers a tremendous opportunity when it is finally completed as a busway, for revolutionizing transit in the region. I can only imagine that with the busway completed they will need fewer buses and drivers to provide better service, which would leave quite some wiggle room to improve services and connecting routes (i'm thinking of 16th Ave bus, and others).

 

[BMO]

*deleted post

 

[doady]

You do realize that York Region Transit comprises more than 8 municipalities. Unlike Brampton transit, which only focuses on one (maybe two or three).

By that standard, GO Transit shouldn't be growing at all.

VIVA is a necessity to link all parts of the region together as a backbone, not to mention it's densist parts are in direct competition with TTC service, and there is a certain extent to which it is definitely much more appealing to drive to a TTC subway station and then take it down instead of waiting 30 minutes for a bus to take 5km to the station.

First of all, I speaking terms of growth, of change in ridership. I don't see how the TTC could interfere with growth of transit ridership in York Region. The TTC stays the same. It is York Region Transit that changes.

Second, if YRT's waiting times of 30 minutes are what limiting its ridership and it chooses to do nothing about those waiting times, and/or puts themselves in a position where they can do nothing about them, how is that the TTC fault?

And thirdly, I find it interesting, this idea of local transit in the 905 being hampered by the presence of the TTC. This begs a few questions:

1. Do Brampton and Durham Region Transit have an advantage over Mississauga and York Region Transit because there is less "competition" from the TTC?
2. Do the bus routes without a TTC subway connection have a higher ridership than the ones that don't?
3. Should YRT cancel all its routes that are contracted to the TTC and make its system more separate and less integrated to improve ridership?

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

And thirdly, I find it interesting, this idea of local transit in the 905 being hampered by the presence of the TTC. This begs a few questions:

1. Do Brampton and Durham Region Transit have an advantage over Mississauga and York Region Transit because there is less "competition" from the TTC?
2. Do the bus routes without a TTC subway connection have a higher ridership than the ones that don't?
3. Should YRT cancel all its routes that are contracted to the TTC and make its system more separate and less integrated to improve ridership?

There's no point really belabouring it but I think the TTC Effect has been talked about on this thread and elsewhere.

I live near Yonge, about 1.5km north of Steeles. Even when I take transit downtown I don't take YRT. I walk to Steeles or drive to Finch Station because that double fare is just infuriating. Are there 5,000 people like me? 500? I don't know but there are a lot.

My sense is that just due to geography this is a situation unique to south York Region, where the population (and thus, in theory, transit use) is most dense. I think there is no question it bites into YRT's ridership though I have no idea if anyone's attempted to quantify it.

An integrated fare system would change things. It doesn't have to be one fare but something like a $1-$2 surcharge instead of a whole second fare to travel a couple of KM would fundamentally alter ridership patterns. Ironically, extending the Yonge subway north probably wouldn't help much since it would largely prevent people like me from hauling down to Finch without putting any more of them on YRT...

At the end of the day I think you have to be realistic about how far a suburb pushing transit can go in a short time with limited resources and you can't assume that oranges are apples. York Region's issues are different from Brampton's.

That's the short(ish) answer...

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I've made a correction to my post regarding VIVA access to the busway. I wasn't aware that they had gotten access.

WRT to VIVA purple serving VIVA Orange's service area, I agree with that, especially with the pending subway expansion. What I'd like to see is VIVA orange maybe run north on Jane to Vaughan Mills Mall as a sort of proto subway, though I think ridership would still be low on that route.

 

[BMO]

I've made a correction to my post regarding VIVA access to the busway. I wasn't aware that they had gotten access.

WRT to VIVA purple serving VIVA Orange's service area, I agree with that, especially with the pending subway expansion. What I'd like to see is VIVA orange maybe run north on Jane to Vaughan Mills Mall as a sort of proto subway, though I think ridership would still be low on that route.

Or even better. Viva Orange north on Jane to Rutherford and across to yonge, or even furthest East and then down Warden to Downtown Markham/ GO.