[Eug]

Hmmm... I thought this decision to send the elephants to that US sanctuary was supported by the zoo. Apparently not.

Zoo keepers fuming over vote sending elephants to sanctuary

The Toronto Zoo’s elephant keepers are up in arms over a late-night city council vote to send the animals to a sanctuary rather than an accredited facility.

“No offence to any city (councillors) that made the decision, but they’re quite honestly not qualified to make a decision on what’s best for these elephants,’’ an angry Vernon Presley, one of seven elephant keepers at the zoo, told the Star last night.

Council voted 31-4 late Tuesday to send the zoo’s three remaining elephants — Toka, Thika and Iringa — to the sprawling Performing Animal Welfare Society (PAWS) sanctuary in San Andreas, Calif., rather than a zoo accredited with the American Association of Zoos and Aquariums (AZA).

The zoo’s board of management voted in the spring to close the elephant exhibit for cost reasons, and the board’s first choice was an AZA facility.

In the meantime, animal rights advocates, led by former Price is Right host Bob Barker, launched an aggressive campaign to have the trio packed off to PAWS. Barker has offered to put up some of his own money toward the $100,000 to $300,000 cost to move them south.

Behind the scenes, zoo officials, staff and animal rights interests have been debating the merits of the sanctuary. Proponents say PAWS and others like it provide warmer climates and huge swaths for elephants to roam. But critics say sanctuaries have lower standards of care and don’t operate transparently.

I'm sure there is some politicking going on with the zookeepers vs. the sanctuaries, but I do have to wonder: Is this yet another example of City Council overstepping its bounds, swayed by vocal activists rather than those trained to assess the situation based on scientific merit?

After reading this I came across these two opposing positions: AZA vs. PAWS

Zoo Vs. Sanctuary: An Ethical Consideration vs. Zoo Vs. Sanctuary: PAWS Response to AZA

 

[Bogtrotter]

It was my assumption when I first heard about the moves that the keepers and zoo board were going to be consulted and have considerable voice on where these animals would go and receive the best vetrinary care. The keepers have worked with these animals for years if not decades. We are not talking about a small private zoo here with dubious practices, it is very large and well respected facility internationally. I do see that the City's heart in is in the right place, but how can they know more than the keepers or zoo staff when it comes to what is best for the animals? Did they consult privately with elephant experts elsewhere for instance? If they haven't done that at least then I would say the process was flawed.

 

[Eug]

Marcus Gee at the Globe: Political animals vote to move elephants, save sharks

Tuesday was Doctor Doolittle Day at city hall. Putting aside the welfare of mere humans, city councillors spent hours debating the fate of our animal cousins the shark and the elephant. In each case, their itch to strike a blow for animal rights led them to override both logic and the advice of their own experts.

- snip -

The elephant vote was nearly as overwhelming. Council voted 31-4 to send three aging pachyderms at the Toronto Zoo to a sanctuary in California. That went against a decision by the zoo’s own management board, which decided in May to try first to find a home for the animals at another zoo.

The board decided to close the elephant exhibit because the three female elephants are getting old and the cost of upgrading their dated enclosure was too high. Zoo chief executive John Tracogna recommended sending them to a zoo accredited by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, where they could be assured of skilled veterinary care and humane management. “There are many AZA accredited zoos with excellent modern elephant facilities,” he said in a report. Seventy-eight AZA zoos have elephants, and the Toronto Zoo was in the process of finding a home for its elephants at one of them.

In stepped Michelle Berardinetti, a rookie Scarborough councillor with a passion for animal welfare and a background fighting the seal and spring bear hunts. She spearheaded the move to short circuit the zoo talks and send the elephants instead to the PAWS Sanctuary in San Andreas, Calif., where they will enjoy 80 acres of roaming space and a “therapeutic Jacuzzi” for their arthritis. She calls the decision a “Free Willy moment.”

If the elephants went to a zoo, she says, they could end up in another city with cold winters. Or they could end up being subjected to the bull hook, an instrument used to train elephants by prodding them in sensitive spots. Though the zoo board explicitly guaranteed they would not send the elephants to a zoo that uses the tool, she says the zoo that takes them could always trade the beasts to another zoo that does.

But giving them to the sanctuary carries risks, too. As Mr. Trocogna points out, a similar sanctuary in Tennessee has had lots of problems, including the death of an elephant handler, the deaths of several elephants and tuberculosis transmission from elephants to workers.

How will the Toronto elephants fare if they are released into an open range after a lifetime in a zoo environment? It is a comforting thought that these animals could roam free together in warmer climes, like old friends playing bridge at a Florida retirement village. In fact, these three do not always get along. Because of what the zoo calls “compatibility issues,” they need watching when together. They might be better off separated and sent to different zoos.

The idea of releasing the elephants to a bucolic oasis at the end of their days has strong sentimental appeal. Literature has tapped it. Think of Black Beauty put out to pasture after a lifetime of toil. Or think, as Ms. Berardinetti does, of Willy, leaping over a breakwater to freedom.

Real life is more complicated. Keiko, the orca that played Willy in the 1993 film, did not thrive when released in the ocean. He ended up dying a sad death, beaching himself in Norway in 2003. Science, not sentiment, should rule decisions like this. Zoo experts, not animal-loving city councillors, are best suited to make the call.

 

[Torontoonmy mind]

I want to thank you, Eug, for your examination of this situation and especially the initial two links of Zoo vs. Sanctuary.
I remember visiting the old Riverdale zoo - I remember visiting the lone female orangutan in her totally barren concrete cage, and how she would sit unmoving & look at people & then smack herself on the head. I was there when the new Toronto Zoo opened in 1974, and I remember, how proud we all were with our state-of-the-art zoo, with its larger & naturalistic enclosures. Co-incidentally, at almost the same time, the Amboseli Elephant Research project began in Kenya. It continues today as the longest run study of wild elephants, their families & behaviour in the wild. After more than 40 years, we now know that life in a zoo is just plain unacceptable for elephants - and life in a cold-weather zoo like Toronto is cruelty. You must understand, our elephants spend at least 1/2 their time in their indoor pens year-round, just because of zoo hours. In the winter that is of course much more. The AZA indoor requirement is 400 ft² (37 m²). Now picture your house and its floor space; picture the lakes that an elephant urinates & the many kilos of manure, and imagine them standing in it. These are animals who in the wild are on the move 20 hours a day.
I watched the Council meeting - I watched the CEO of the zoo waffle about where the elephants might go & when. Not only could he not give the name of a potential home, he could not give a definite timeline of when he would have a name. This is because of 2 things - nobody wants them, and those that do, like Granby, can't house them. ( The irony of Granby is that it is further north and its 'state-of-the-art' facility is smaller than Toronto's with 2 elephants already in residence.). I say no one wants them because they are past breeding age - the main thrust of zoos now is breeding, because the populations of both Asian & African elephants in North American zoos is not self-sustaining. Until recently, the percentages of infant & calf deaths in zoos has been high, the percentage of male calves born has also been unnaturally high - and those male calves grow up to be very difficult-to keep bulls.I understand that the zookeepers were surprised and upset. Truth is, I think a lot of us sanctuary proponents were surprised. I watched the debate - I didn't think the sanctuary option had a chance in h*** - I now think MS. Berardinetti might be a politician to watch in the future, because somebody sure did some serious and quiet campaigning, past what has been done so far!
I quote Vernon Presley, one of the elephant keepers ( from the Star ) "AZA standards require regular routines with elephants, including drawing blood, trunk inspections and daily exercise such as strength and flexibility training, elephant “yoga’’ and cardio work." I might also mention, much time is also spent on 'personal care' routines - bathing & scrubbing, and foot care, in particular. Guess what? Almost none of that is necessary at sanctuaries. Elephants are perfectly capable of managing their own exercise & personal care, given the appropriate venue. Foot problems are a major killer in zoos - and non-existent in free-ranging elephants. Much of the blood-testing involves captivity-induced infections as well as the need to monitor their health because of the constant close contact with humans. Both American sanctuaries have professional keepers and specialist veterinarians, who do all the same essential medical care, as well as having access to best medical opinion world wide. I am sure the zookeepers are excellent at their jobs, and know more than anyone about those jobs, but those jobs become mostly needless outside of the tightly-controlled & problematic zoo environment.
Both sanctuaries are highly professional at moving & acclimating elephants to a new environment & new relationships. It has been successfully done many times - even so far as to fly poor sick Maggie from Alaska down to PAWS, where she thrives to this day. I could go on to address further misconceptions about how these sanctuaries operate.
You have a right to ask, what could I , a simple member of the public, know? Well, it all started with Lucy, the sole elephant at the Valley Zoo in Edmonton. I heard the zoo saying that she should stay with her loving human family, but others saying it was bad for her. I thought maybe the zoo was right, but my daughter disagreed, so we started learning about elephants. That was almost 2 years ago. And I now have spent 100's of hours studying elephant behaviour, watching wild elephants & elephants in captivity, and I do believe I can at least tell a healthy happy elephant from a sick sad elephant. And I will never give up on trying to free Lucy. I'd like to give you some links - tell me what you think: PAWS in California is where the elephants are destined, though I have to say I'd prefer it was Tennessee ( and TES certainly has the most professional videos - of elephants having fun.) Doesn't matter one - look at what the poor things are walking on in Toronto in the winter, on sore feet, when they can go out.:
http://www.youtube.com/user/elephantsanctuarytn#p/u/4/Z-ceVz3tSyg
http://www.youtube.com/user/PAWSWEB?blend=7&ob=5#p/u/17/8miAiDTO9Jg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwwQod8Dkz8

 

[Eug]

Ugh. You might want to quit while you're ahead. Sappy posts like that are utterly unconvincing.

I can only hope you're not a spokesperson for PAWS, because if you are, I'd suggest they hire better PR people.

 

[Bruvyman]

Ugh. You might want to quit while you're ahead. Sappy posts like that are utterly unconvincing.

I can only hope you're not a spokesperson for PAWS, because if you are, I'd suggest they hire better PR people.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Eug]

Speak for yourself.

I am... and for others who want more than just sappy arguments and blanket statements like blood tests are unnecessary with no scientific backup. Maybe there is science behind it, or lack of science supporting either view, but you'd never know it from that obvious activist post.

I have little patience for vocal activist lobbying which tries to win people over on sentiment rather than science.

I have to wonder if Berardinetti pulled the wool over the eyes of Council. One of the big problems with politicians is they're often like sentimental vocal activists. Objectiveness on the issues at hand is not always important. What is important to many is the ultimate goal, facts be damned, unfortunately.

Does anyone here know how the City Council discussion went on this issue? Was is it discussed fairly and objectively? Or was it coated in sentiment and then slipped in under the scientific radar? Was the Toronto Zoo's opinion even seriously considered?

 

[Torontoonmy mind]

I am... and for others who want more than just sappy arguments and blanket statements like blood tests are unnecessary with no scientific backup. Maybe there is science behind it, or lack of science supporting either view, but you'd never know it from that obvious activist post.

I have little patience for vocal activist lobbying which tries to win people over on sentiment rather than science.

I have to wonder if Berardinetti pulled the wool over the eyes of Council. One of the big problems with politicians is they're often like sentimental vocal activists. Objectiveness on the issues at hand is not always important. What is important to many is the ultimate goal, facts be damned, unfortunately.

Does anyone here know how the City Council discussion went on this issue? Was is it discussed fairly and objectively? Or was it coated in sentiment and then slipped in under the scientific radar? Was the Toronto Zoo's opinion even seriously considered?

I have to say that I am surprised to be called 'sappy'. Also, notice I said "'Much' of the blood-testing involves captivity-induced infections . . . " I think the literature shows that the number one killer of zoo elephants is osteomyelitis of the digits, which, when it ascends from the phalanges to the metacarpels is life-threatening, very difficult & time-consuming to treat, and eventually a cause for euthanasia. Dr. Joyce Poole after 40 years of study of wild African elephants has yet to see this often-fatal condition in them. Zoo elephants suffer diseases like tuberculosis and EEHV that are rarely seen in the wild. I can give you links to the wild life medicine journals, published & peer-reviewed papers for each of these statements.
For the now-captive elephants in North America, the best they can have is an expansive sanctuary - with the needed hundreds of acres to roam, natural browse, and the opportunity to be with their own kind.
The Elephant Sanctuary of Tennessee now has the world's foremost authority on elephant tuberculosis, Dr. Susam Mikota, on staff - the cutting edge research is happening there because TES accepted most of the Hawthorne herd - a group of elephants confiscated by the USDA from Hawthorne corporation, and now seen as the index herd for human-transmissable TB in North America. No one was even aware then of the complexity and difficulty of treating elephants for TB.
I attended the international symposium on elephants last spring in Toronto. Councillor Cho & I believe Councillor Carroll, attended. Presentations were given by Drs Georgia Mason, Lori Marino, Mel Richardson & Keith Lindsay - all are well-known & respectedi n their fields. Ed Stewart from Paws also gave a presentation on the logistics of the transfer of ailing elephants.
Amongst other things, I also have read the 63 page Zimmerman report , based on the Valley Zoo's own, very sloppy, records, of Lucy's health & treatment. It is true, when I understand, by virtue of reading factual information, how elephants suffer in zoos and circuses, I am appalled, and get emotional. But I will back up everything I say with the scientific literature. I will also do so without demeaning those who disagree with me.

 

[Bruvyman]

I am... and for others who want more than just sappy arguments and blanket statements like blood tests are unnecessary with no scientific backup. Maybe there is science behind it, or lack of science supporting either view, but you'd never know it from that obvious activist post.

I have little patience for vocal activist lobbying which tries to win people over on sentiment rather than science.

I have to wonder if Berardinetti pulled the wool over the eyes of Council. One of the big problems with politicians is they're often like sentimental vocal activists. Objectiveness on the issues at hand is not always important. What is important to many is the ultimate goal, facts be damned, unfortunately.

Does anyone here know how the City Council discussion went on this issue? Was is it discussed fairly and objectively? Or was it coated in sentiment and then slipped in under the scientific radar? Was the Toronto Zoo's opinion even seriously considered?

No, really, SPEAK FOR YOURSELF. I also want scientific rationale for decisions made, but I appreciate the passion, effort AND knowledge exhibited by Torontoonmy Mind's post and I do not wish to have you speaking on my behalf, especially when you disparage him/her as an "activist" (why is that such a bad thing, anyway?) and lambaste his post as "sappy" without providing a shred of "science" yourself. His research, experience, personal observations and point of view seem to me to be valuable to this discussion, and it offends me that you would slough him off for no good reason other than the fact that he has clearly taken a side in the debate.

 

[Eug]

lambaste his post as "sappy" without providing a shred of "science" yourself.

The post was emotional. As is obvious, I have little patience for such sentimental activism. Anyways, agreed, I don't speak for you.

It is true, when I understand, by virtue of reading factual information, how elephants suffer in zoos and circuses, I am appalled, and get emotional.

See above.

But I will back up everything I say with the scientific literature.

Feel free to do so.

I will also do so without demeaning those who disagree with me.

Point taken.

 

[Torontoonmy mind]

Actually, I DID get thrown off track here. I meant to address the fact that zoos are changing, like everything else, and Toronto Zoo could have a chance to move once again to the forefront of the change. Just as the exhibits of today bear no resemblance to the cages of yesterday, the focus of the experience has changed from entertainment to education and conservation. Toronto Zoo could spend 50 million dollars on an elephant exhibit, and still be inadequate, given what we know now. I am not saying the zoo is bad for all animals - but now we have the technology to improve & enrich the experience in a way that couldn't be imagined 40 years ago. Studies have shown that the average zoo-goer spends less than 2 minutes at an exhibit! But I know adults and children who are glued to their monitors watching live-feed, remotely operated, web cams of every animal from polar bears to the parade of animals coming to an African waterhole. These are often accompanied by an optional chat, where people can discuss the sightings & behaviours, and exchange information. At the pond I watch, it's possible to learn more in an hour about different species than I could have imagined. And this is watching wild animals exhibiting natural behaviours, not the stereotypical movements of caged creatures. Since I believe discussing future development is a goal of this forum, I just want to show you a proposal that was presented to the zoo board. I expect instant criticism - at this point that's fine - nobody is insisting on anything. Just know that now there are daily 'safari' cams, with live presenters and classrooms of children able to ask the guides questions and even recognize and study specific animals. I honestly think this is the future, and I'd love to get people involved in thinking about it. I expect as well that the first criticism will be where is the money coming from - well, the citizens of Toronto just got off scot-free from the costs of the move - plus future upkeep - so they can decide what they want to spend where.
http://www.elephantsincanada.com/a-new-vision-for-the-toronto-zoo
wildlife cams: http://www.wildearth.tv/
background papers:
http://www.elephantvoices.org/news-media-a-reports/elephantvoices-publications.html I particularly recommend "An Elephant in the Room: The Science and Well Being of Elephants in Captivity". Eds. D. L. Forthman, L. F. Kane and P. Waldau.
http://www.elephanttrust.org/node/282
TB in elephants: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_welfare/downloads/elephant/A Brief History of TB in Elephants.pdf
Foot problems in captive elephants: http://books.google.ca/books?id=j1m...A#v=onepage&q=osteomyelitis elephants&f=false
And thank you Bruvyman, for your clear-mindedness. I suppose if I mention that I'm a female I will be thought even more over-emotional. But then people thought Jane Goodall was that too, because she ascribed emotions to chimpanzees, as Cynthia Moss does to elephants.

 

[Torontoonmy mind]

On a financial note, Philadelphia Zoo closed its elephant exhibit in 2009, shipped its Asian elephant to PAWS sanctuary, and reportedly paid Pittsburgh Zoo $500,000 to take the 2 Africans, Kallie & Bette. However, the two, at age 29 now, were deemed too old to be first time mothers - Pittsburgh instead imported 3 younger females from Botswana to its breeding facility in Somerset County. Therefore Kallie has been shipped off to Cleveland, and Bette's fate is yet to be decided. These two were companions of ten years. The further financial arrangements are unknown at this time.
Toka & Iringa have been together over 40 years - Thika is 31 & was born in Toronto. Female elephants stay together their whole lives - separating them would undoubtedly cause them great distress. I'd like to thank the excellent elephant database, elephant.se, for the particulars. Some people may find it interesting to check the history & details: http://www.elephant.se/location2.php?location_id=197

 

[Eug]

Rogue zoo keepers fight move of Toronto’s elephants to California sanctuary

War has erupted between Toronto Zoo elephant keepers and the animal rights group helping to co-ordinate a move of three aging elephants to a California sanctuary.

Zoocheck Canada’s Julie Woodyer told the Star she has rescinded an offer to pay for one of the dozen keepers to fly to the PAWS sanctuary this weekend with her and two councillors, Michelle Berardinetti and Raymond Cho.

She is also considering shutting the keepers out of training the pachyderms for the risky trip — a move the keepers say would be foolish and potentially dangerous for the animals they know better than anyone.

Woodyer said last week a trainer would be welcome on the trip, which follows council’s vote to override a zoo board decision to first look for an accredited zoo as a new home for Iringa, 42; Toka, 41; and Thika, 31.

That changed, she said, last Friday when one of the keepers started calling councillors directly, urging them to hold another vote and reverse the decision to send the animals to the 80-acre PAWS sanctuary in San Andreas.

“That’s insubordination — city staff can’t go above their managers’ head and do those kinds of things,” Woodyer said. “They were trying to sabotage the process. We’re happy to work with them but need them to be straight up and upfront with us.”

Zoo chief executive John Tracogna has said keepers have already started early training for the elephants, which have lived in their enclosure for decades, to prepare them to move by truck or plane.

But Woodyer suggested PAWS, and the company it uses to manage elephant transport, should take over if zoo staff continue to fight the move.

“If it becomes clear they’re not coming to this in good faith, then we’ll have to bring in trainers and it will be difficult to include (zoo staff) in the process.”

Zoo management has ordered trainers not to talk to reporters since one told the Star that councillors, after they voted for the sanctuary option, are “not qualified to make a decision on what’s best for these elephants.”

 

[Torontoonmy mind]

Actually, I publicly offered to hug David Rider, the Urban Affairs Bureau Chief, and anyone else at the Star who was involved with printing that article, for posting the video of Maggie's move to PAWS. Did you watch it? Watch were and how Maggie ends up living. Now, watch the Toronto elephants on a winter day, in the little time they get out. These are 5 females - this kind of aggression amongst related females is scarily sick. Never happens except in zoos & circuses.These elephants, with their cracked, tender feet, are slipping and falling in a semi-frozen slush of urine and dung. Look at them picking up their feet. Those keepers at the end of the film were desperately trying , with coaxing & treats, to separate out the agitated herd. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwwQod8Dkz8&NR=1 This is exactly why Tessa died of injuries in 2009. and why Patsy died of foot infection in 2006. I still will never denigrate the zookeepers - in fact, I am absolutely sure that they have enormous attachment to the elephants, or they wouldn't be so outraged.
I post videos because I hope sometimes people will watch something if they don't want to read it. Like the reams of background info I posted. But here is the open letter just written by the director of the Alaska Zoo to the director of the Toronto Zoo. http://www.pawsweb.org/documents/LAMPILETTER_000.pdf

 

[Eug]

The politics have ramped up a notch:

Toronto Zoo loses accreditation over elephant move

The Association of Zoos and Aquariums (AZA) has pulled its accreditation of the Scarborough attraction, citing the actions of Toronto’s city council in the management of animals as the cause.