[ksun]

While of course transit delays are costly, they pale in comparison to auto delays.

While some yuppies may be upset that the King Street Car is full and they have to wait 2 minutes for the next one. People and businesses from all over the GTA have to deal with delays on the highways. Ever looked at Google maps traffic at 5pm on a Friday?

Does a 15 minute subway delay one day a month cancel out 30+ minutes wasted in traffic every day for those who are not fortunate enough to be able to live in the downtown part of the city?

2 minutes, what world do you live in?

Right now, at Yonge/Queen (3:45pm Friday), the waiting time for theWB 501 is 4 minutes, 13 minutes, 28 minutes, 41 minutes. The WB 504: 6 minutes, then 17, 22, and 27.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Big surprise that condo developers who already own the land want to tear down the Gardiner!

Meanwhile the hybrid option is preferred by companies that form the backbone of Toronto and Ontario industry including:
Toronto Financial District Business Improvement Area
Ontario Trucking Association
Toronto Industry Network
Canadian Courier and Logistics Association.

Nice "condo developers" vs. "backbone". Interesting choice of posturing.

2 minutes, what world do you live in?

Right now, at Yonge/Queen (3:45pm Friday), the waiting time for theWB 501 is 4 minutes, 13 minutes, 28 minutes, 41 minutes. The WB 504: 6 minutes, then 17, 22, and 27.

From someone who obviously think that it is a yuppie problem?

AoD

 

[salsa]

But the result was one of the nicest public spaces in the entire city:

Traffic may have increased since the removal of the Embarcadero Freeway, but this isn't necessarily a cause and effect relationship.

As I said in another thread, almost no one can dispute that the demise of the Embarcadero has been extremely positive outcome for the city, but leave it to mayor Tory and his team of dimwits to ignore anything and everything in their attempt to justify their pathetically weak case for pursuing the hybrid. Taking advice from a cab driver instead of city planners is the best they can do at this point. This debate is starting to rival the Scarborough subway for pure bald-faced lying and stubborn ignorance of facts and experts advice.

I think it's pretty funny that we have developpers and MP's coming out and expressing their opinions about that Garinder, when these are the 2 groups we should care least about and nobody asked their opinions on the matter.

Then you're welcome to listen to the health experts, traffic analysts, city staff, city planners, and urbanists instead. Or would you rather believe mayor Tory, DMW, and Rob Ford on this issue?

 

[ksun]

Nice "condo developers" vs. "backbone". Interesting choice of posturing.

AoD

are most of us who support the removal option "developers"?
Plus, what's so bad of developers? They build the city, provide housing and office space. Since when developers become an anathema in Toronto? Yes, they make profits, not without risks, just like in other industries. What makes developers more evil than other industries?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

^ judging by the QQ revitalization, that area won't be nearly as nice even after Gardiner is removed. It will simply be a major 8 lane street with glass towers on both sides,

The Province of Ontario has banned construction of buildings that have more than 40% of their exterior as windows.

and if we are lucky, a few trees here and there (no palm trees of course), and the dominate feature would be cement.

In 10 to 20 years, the trees installed on Queens Quay will form a tree canopy over the sidewalk and street. Unfortunately, it's not trivial to plant full sized trees.

See render of mature trees on Queens Quay:

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Then you're welcome to listen to the health experts, traffic analysts, city staff, city planners, and urbanists instead. Or would you rather believe mayor Tory, DMW, and Rob Ford on this issue?

We don't need experts, all we need is the San Jose taxi driver.

AoD

 

[Eug]

Who will vote for what:

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news...ill-vote-on-the-east-gardiner-expressway.html

Have declared they plan to vote “hybridâ€
Mayor John Tory
Councillor Michelle Berardinetti
Councillor Christin Carmichael Greb
Councillor Cesar Palacio
Councillor Gary Crawford
Deputy Mayor Vince Crisanti
Councillor Justin Di Ciano
Councillor Jaye Robinson
Councillor Frank Di Giorgio
Councillor Norm Kelly
Deputy Mayor Denzil Minnan-Wong
Councillor James Pasternak
Councillor Frances Nunziata
Councillor Stephen Holyday
Total: 14

Have declared they plan to vote "boulevard":
Councillor Paul Ainslie
Councillor Maria Augimeri
Councillor Shelley Carroll
Councillor Joe Cressy
Councillor Sarah Doucette
Councillor Mary Fragedakis
Councillor Mary-Margaret McMahon
Councillor Joe Mihevc
Councillor Mike Layton
Deputy Mayor Pam McConnell
Councillor Gord Perks
Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam
Councillor Janet Davis
Councillor Paula Fletcher
Councillor Josh Matlow
Councillor Ana Bailao
Total: 16

Have declared they plan to vote to maintain the Gardiner status quo:
Councillor Rob Ford
Total: 1

Have declared they are undecided:
Councillor Jon Burnside
Councillor John Campbell
Councillor Raymond Cho
Councillor Josh Colle
Deputy Mayor Glenn De Baermaeker
Councillor Ron Moeser
Councillor David Shiner
Councillor Michael Thompson
Councillor Jim Karygiannis
Total: 9

Have not responded:
Councillor John Filion
Councillor Mark Grimes
Councillor Chin Lee
Councillor Giorgio Mammoliti
Councillor Anthony Perruzza
Total: 5

 

[44 North]

Please don't upload the Gardiner. The last thing we need is to give the Province of Ontario another tool to muck around with Toronto's affairs.

Agreed. They'd probably sell it asap so they can extend Line 1 to Newmarket.

Big surprise that condo developers who already own the land want to tear down the Gardiner!

Meanwhile the hybrid option is preferred by companies that form the backbone of Toronto and Ontario industry including:
Toronto Financial District Business Improvement Area
Ontario Trucking Association
Toronto Industry Network
Canadian Courier and Logistics Association.

Toronto Financial District BIA? Never heard of em. They're probably just a few small companies with little clout. Kidding aside, our financial district is the 12th most influential in the world. I think they're worth listening to, and not just because we've ignored and underinvested in it for decades. I definitely feel that if we had a Queen Subway in place this debate would be different.

 

[Amare]

Then you're welcome to listen to the health experts, traffic analysts, city staff, city planners, and urbanists instead.

That group is a lot more relevant to the conversation compared to the developers and MP's. I'd take their opinions on the matter 9 times out of 10.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Who will vote for what:

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news...ill-vote-on-the-east-gardiner-expressway.html

Have declared they plan to vote “hybridâ€
Mayor John Tory
Councillor Michelle Berardinetti
Councillor Christin Carmichael Greb
Councillor Cesar Palacio
Councillor Gary Crawford
Deputy Mayor Vince Crisanti
Councillor Justin Di Ciano
Councillor Jaye Robinson
Councillor Frank Di Giorgio
Councillor Norm Kelly
Deputy Mayor Denzil Minnan-Wong
Councillor James Pasternak
Councillor Frances Nunziata
Councillor Stephen Holyday
Total: 14

Have declared they plan to vote "boulevard":
Councillor Paul Ainslie
Councillor Maria Augimeri
Councillor Shelley Carroll
Councillor Joe Cressy
Councillor Sarah Doucette
Councillor Mary Fragedakis
Councillor Mary-Margaret McMahon
Councillor Joe Mihevc
Councillor Mike Layton
Deputy Mayor Pam McConnell
Councillor Gord Perks
Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam
Councillor Janet Davis
Councillor Paula Fletcher
Councillor Josh Matlow
Councillor Ana Bailao
Total: 16

Have declared they plan to vote to maintain the Gardiner status quo:
Councillor Rob Ford
Total: 1

Have declared they are undecided:
Councillor Jon Burnside
Councillor John Campbell
Councillor Raymond Cho
Councillor Josh Colle
Deputy Mayor Glenn De Baermaeker
Councillor Ron Moeser
Councillor David Shiner
Councillor Michael Thompson
Councillor Jim Karygiannis
Total: 9

Have not responded:
Councillor John Filion
Councillor Mark Grimes
Councillor Chin Lee
Councillor Giorgio Mammoliti
Councillor Anthony Perruzza
Total: 5

This is the second survey that shows Council favouring removal currently. The other was from the Globe.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

I know that it's a bit of arguing in an echo chamber, despite arcum and DDA's contributions, but I thought this link floating around Twitter was great:

http://onestreet.org/resources-for-increasing-bicycling/115-traffic-evaporation

http://onestreet.org/images/stories/Disappearing_traffic.pdf

70 case studies showing that when you close a street, the traffic really does evaporate. The first link has further testimonials to various closures as well.

Unfortunately they never seem to interview the people whose trips evaporated. Is it because they all started taking transit or because the trip simply took too long? I would be very happy if I visited my in-laws less, but the overall utility to society would be lower if those trips evaporated.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

They were abducted by aliens. Tragic.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Unfortunately they never seem to interview the people whose trips evaporated. Is it because they all started taking transit or because the trip simply took too long? I would be very happy if I visited my in-laws less, but the overall utility to society would be lower if those trips evaporated.

Does the micro really matter? The important thing is that sky didn't fall, the locale affected by these changes didn't evaporate into irrelevance and life went on. That's what matters - the big picture.

AoD

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Does the micro really matter? The important thing is that sky didn't fall, the locale affected by these changes didn't evaporate into irrelevance and life went on. That's what matters - the big picture.

AoD

Uh, let's rip up the sidewalk outside where you live and see what happens. At the macro level life will go on, but all of your trips will magically evaporate and you will soon starve to death. Think of the big picture and how much money we'll save by not maintaining that sidewalk!

AoD, urbanist, moderator, sometimes-benevolent dictator.

 

[PinkLucy]

Who will vote for what:


Have declared they plan to vote to maintain the Gardiner status quo:
Councillor Rob Ford
Total: 1

Only Ford is planning to vote for something that isn't even an option.