[OneCity]

What I mean is that I fear it will end up being like the Sheppard line in that it will not be extended to it's natural length for a really long time.

The Province is now pro subway and there will certainly be sacrifices. If the City wants to solidify some of the surrface, minimal grade seperated LRT in a reasonable time frame in addition to the subways and RER they'll likely have to figure it out a away to do the heavy lifting I'm this realm

 

[JSF-1]

I think they are pro subway until the bill comes in. When you look at the DRL, SSE, TYNE, and Sheppard that is already at least $25-30 Billion worth of spending (a full DRL alone can easily hit 12 Billion+). How much is the Province willing to spend while at the same time preaching about cuts and efficiencies? If the Province is to upload the subway will they bear the entire cost or will they expect Toronto to pitch in? If they expect Toronto to pitch in then I think the City needs to make it clear the even without the Subway the Province will still need to help fund LRT expansion.

 

[Rainforest]

Eglinton East is very likely to be delayed now. The new provincial cabinet wants it built as an underground line but has a ton of more pressing priorities at hand. The city doesn't mind building it at-grade, but that costs some money and potentially goes against the wishes of the new premier. In that situation, the project will likely linger until Queens Park gets another government.

 

[Rainforest]

As of the possibility of redesigning ECLRT to be fully grade-separated, let's not forget that the existing tunnel section (under construction) is optimized for the current design (light rail with surface sections on the outsides). In a number of ways, it will be sub-optimal for a fully grade-separated line:

- Stations are designed for medium passenger volumes, perhaps 40% to 50% of the BD subway capacity. If the Eglinton line is overall 10-15% slower than the BD subway, then it is still fairly fast compared to a regular bus, but riders who can chose their route will prefer the BD line. But if Eglinton is as fast as BD, or even faster, then the passenger flow will split evenly between the two lines. BD will easily handle it, Eglinton won't.

- Low-floor has little benefit for a fully grade-separate line, and makes the tunnel and station construction somewhat more expensive. The whole point of low floor is to enable cheap outer sections. If we spend on the low-floor compatible central section, and then decline the savings on the outer sections, then we basically waste the money.

An argument can be made that Eglinton should have been a subway from the onset, but its is not a very good idea to redesign it now.

 

[JSF-1]

When people say Eglinton should have been a Subway do they mean grade-separated LRT or full on Subway like Line 1 and 2? The latter was terrible idea in the 1990's and is a terrible idea today; it would have made the Sheppard Line look like a gold mine. Guarantee it would have been shut down in the early 2000 during the TTC's budget crisis like the Sheppard Line almost was. It would have run at such a deficit I could see it nearly bankrupting the TTC it that was possible.

 

[Rainforest]

When people say Eglinton should have been a Subway do they mean grade-separated LRT or full on Subway like Line 1 and 2? The latter was terrible idea in the 1990's and is a terrible idea today; it would have made the Sheppard Line look like a gold mine. Guarantee it would have been shut down in the early 2000 during the TTC's budget crisis like the Sheppard Line almost was. It would have run at such a deficit I could see it nearly bankrupting the TTC it that was possible.

I prefer to avoid a rehash of the debate on the merits and drawback of Eglinton being a subway. First of all, that debate has been running for years, and secondly, ECLRT is getting built right now and it's not a subway.

However, I have to stress that operating costs of a fully grade-separate LRT would be very similar to operating costs of a subway with same length and same number of stations. Thus if you believe an Eglinton subway would be a bad idea, then there is no reason to think that a fully grade-separate LRT would be much better.

The whole point of LRT is saving on the construction costs and operating costs with cheaper at-grade sections. If we believe that the passenger volume can be comfortably handled by the line that partly runs at grade, then the current design is correct and shouldn't be changed.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If they do upload all lines the EELRT drops In priority and will be a full design reset.

Best case is for Ford to be clear on his priority lines to to build as subway. SSE, Yonge, Sheppard, DRL and Eglinton West (possible Crosstown to Kennedy if can be cancelled). The work and funding needed to deliver those will ensure EELRT does not get built in our lifetime. But if they make a deal that lets the City pay the bulk of the lower cost surface LRT that is nearing design completion like EELRT, Waterfront, possibly Finch its a win-win for Ford and Tory as it may be the only way those get built.

That's not how it works. The MTA is run by the state of new york and all bus and subway operations along with planning are done by them. You can't really split the bus and the subways. The province will have to take the whole thing. They EELRT won't have a transfer at Kennedy so it's a through line. They should build it with the Scarborough subways.

 

[BurlOak]

Eglinton East is very likely to be delayed now. The new provincial cabinet wants it built as an underground line but has a ton of more pressing priorities at hand. The city doesn't mind building it at-grade, but that costs some money and potentially goes against the wishes of the new premier. In that situation, the project will likely linger until Queens Park gets another government.

Eglinton East cannot be built grade-separated if the portion from Kennedy to Don Mills is not.
Either Kennedy to Don Mills is fixed, or EELRT is abandoned (and left to the City if they want to proceed).

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

When people say Eglinton should have been a Subway do they mean grade-separated LRT or full on Subway like Line 1 and 2? The latter was terrible idea in the 1990's and is a terrible idea today; it would have made the Sheppard Line look like a gold mine. Guarantee it would have been shut down in the early 2000 during the TTC's budget crisis like the Sheppard Line almost was. It would have run at such a deficit I could see it nearly bankrupting the TTC it that was possible.

Full on subway. Ridership would have been bad in the late 1990's but it would have picked up in the 2000s and we would not have some of the rough patches we do on Eglinton now.

 

[ssiguy2]

$5 billion is an obscene amount of money for a non- grade separated line. The Canada Line with it/s puny 50 meter stations will still have higher capacity than Eglinton LRT due to running much faster and at far higher frequencies. This to say nothing of the fact that Eglintion LRT will be more expensive to run due to not being automated.

Miller went out of his way to make sure no new transit lines could be automated to keep his union base happy and the result is a lower capacity, less reliable, less frequent, and slower transit line but at subway prices. Ford/s subways,, subways, subways is stupid but no more so than Miller's "LRT or nothing" dogma. In Eglinton's case however, Ford is right........it should be a grade separated line.

 

[OneCity]

That's not how it works. The MTA is run by the state of new york and all bus and subway operations along with planning are done by them. You can't really split the bus and the subways. The province will have to take the whole thing. They EELRT won't have a transfer at Kennedy so it's a through line. They should build it with the Scarborough subways.

I'm referring to only capital funding to have a chance to get the line built not operational. The operational funds could likely be uploaded as part of "subways"

 

[nfitz]

$5 billion is an obscene amount of money for a non- grade separated line.

I don't believe the Eglinton East LRT cost estimates are anywhere near $5 billion!

 

[OneCity]

Miller went out of his way to make sure no new transit lines could be automated to keep his union base happy and the result is a lower capacity, less reliable, less frequent, and slower transit line but at subway prices. Ford/s subways,, subways, subways is stupid but no more so than Miller's "LRT or nothing" dogma. In Eglinton's case however, Ford is right........it should be a grade separated line.

This exactly. I truly cant imagine the congestion on Eglinton if the Crosstown proceeds in its current form from McCowan to the DVP. Residents are going to flip. Ive already witnessed the traffic on Lawrence ave from McCowan to the DVP overflow due to the Kennedy Crosstown cosntruction recently and they may now never revert back. I also cant imagine Kingston Rd losing 2 lanes with a rapidly growing Durham with the EELRT.

Ford wins with "subways" talk because the neglect of important details in the Miller plan that will make the current traffic problems worse in these areas in addition to all the transfers. Build the subways, RER first and then maybe it will be only become slightly insane to be removing vehicle lanes for non grade seperated LRT in a hybrid high and low density inner suburb.

 

[micheal_can]

That's not how it works. The MTA is run by the state of new york and all bus and subway operations along with planning are done by them. You can't really split the bus and the subways. The province will have to take the whole thing. They EELRT won't have a transfer at Kennedy so it's a through line. They should build it with the Scarborough subways.

BC Transit runs many bus systems in BC. It may sound like a good idea until you see how badly they are laid out.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

BC Transit runs many bus systems in BC. It may sound like a good idea until you see how badly they are laid out.

This is true, too.

I'm referring to only capital funding to have a chance to get the line built not operational. The operational funds could likely be uploaded as part of "subways"

And what if Toronto doesnt agree to this? The council wont agree to this without some operational subsidy.