[DirectionNorth]

Kids already know how to socialize on the net. Even before the pandemic they were on Facebook/Skype. Ticktock/...etc I would think it's worse for adults. COVID isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Kids will learn how to adapt.

Says the same crowd who ask why kids are online so much and agonize over our digital society. I notice you spelled "Tik-Tok" wrong ... and there's a body of evidence that social media use decreases mental health.

The statement "they'll adapt" is so wrong that it's totally [expletive deleted] stupid.

What about people who don't have wi-fi at home? Abusive parents? What about those children who rely on mental health support at school? Those who live in shoebox condos/apartments which may be overcrowded and poor spaces for their education?

I notice you haven't even mentioned the education.

What would you do if you couldn't be with your friends in-person, indefinitely?

We rank closures not only on sheer COVID numbers, but also on social utilities of the location being locked down. I daresay that education, mental health, and socialization is more important than sporting events.

Instead of knee-jerking to "shut it down," are there any intermediate measures to reduce spread within schools? Like vaccine mandates (which I would support if proposed by the government)?

Edited for expansion of ideas.

 

[Northern Light]

Says the same crowd who ask why kids are online so much and agonize over our digital society. I notice you spelled "Tik-Tok" wrong ... and there's a body of evidence that social media use decreases mental health.

The statement "they'll adapt" is so wrong that it's totally [expletive deleted] stupid.

What about people who don't have wi-fi at home? Abusive parents? What about those children who rely on mental health support at school? Those who live in shoebox condos/apartments which may be overcrowded and poor spaces for their education?

I notice you haven't even mentioned the education.

What would you do if you couldn't be with your friends in-person, indefinitely?

We rank closures not only on sheer COVID numbers, but also on social utilities of the location being locked down. I daresay that education, mental health, and socialization is more important than sporting events.

Instead of knee-jerking to "shut it down," are there any intermediate measures to reduce spread within schools? Like vaccine mandates (which I would support if proposed by the government)?

Edited for expansion of ideas.

100%

*****

Lets add, I am and remain pro-vaxx, and have been......

Notwithstanding that.........the reaction is not correlated with the epidemiological reaction if we accept every word of it without question.

The Black Death to which to some people equate this killed between 30-60% of all Europeans.

Lets be 100% clear that would be beyond a crisis and we ought to respond strongly as a society at a small fraction of the scale of that......

But what scale, again?

Roughly 5,000,000 deaths are attributed to Covid worldwide; with a global population of ~8 Billion.

If accepted at face value, that's 0.06% of the world's population.

Also, that number is inclusive of periods of much higher fatality rates in the early months when treatment was more of a mystery and LTCs were consistent source of outbreak.

Today, the fatality rates are substantially lower.

Severe responses that curtail natural and necessary human behavior (socialization) are not merited by that level of incidence. (I've got my proof, and its less an issue for me than most, but I actually care about other people)

The human population grew in 2020 and will grow again in 2021.

That is not said to diminish the need for vaccination or to be mindful of good hygiene; it is said to place to the very real concern in proper context.

We have not taken similarly scaled action to deal with any other similarly scaled problem.........EVER.

Not a disease, not a social condition (crime, car accidents etc.).

Never have we been this harsh, for this long, outside of war time.

Its time to care more for the millions who have died due to deferred medical care, due to poverty, due to social isolation and mental health crises.

A reminder to everyone, 100% of us will die, no exceptions; that's how life always ends. We needn't be cavalier about that; but nor should we live life in fear of it.

 

[gabe]

Says the same crowd who ask why kids are online so much and agonize over our digital society. I notice you spelled "Tik-Tok" wrong ... and there's a body of evidence that social media use decreases mental health.

The statement "they'll adapt" is so wrong that it's totally [expletive deleted] stupid.

What about people who don't have wi-fi at home? Abusive parents? What about those children who rely on mental health support at school? Those who live in shoebox condos/apartments which may be overcrowded and poor spaces for their education?

I notice you haven't even mentioned the education.

What would you do if you couldn't be with your friends in-person, indefinitely?

We rank closures not only on sheer COVID numbers, but also on social utilities of the location being locked down. I daresay that education, mental health, and socialization is more important than sporting events.

Instead of knee-jerking to "shut it down," are there any intermediate measures to reduce spread within schools? Like vaccine mandates (which I would support if proposed by the government)?

Edited for expansion of ideas.

Our kids will be just fine. They often have more sense than the adults around them. It's been almost two years into the pandemic, it's now a way of life. They know the struggles of the past year and will adapt accordingly.

 

[Northern Light]

Our kids will be just fine. They often have more sense than the adults around them. It's been almost two years into the pandemic, it's now a way of life. They know the struggles of the past year and will adapt accordingly.

Some of us disagree, and have evidence in support of our position.

'nuff said.

 

[Towered]

Our kids will be just fine. They often have more sense than the adults around them. It's been almost two years into the pandemic, it's now a way of life. They know the struggles of the past year and will adapt accordingly.

In my case, online learning was an unmitigated disaster. Socialization is essential, and some of you here are seriously underrating just how crucial it is for development. I simply can't support any more lockdowns. We did it. We flattened the curve. We got vaccinated in impressive numbers. We paid our dues.

Enough is enough.

 

[gabe]

In my case, online learning was an unmitigated disaster. Socialization is essential, and some of you here are seriously underrating just how crucial it is for development. I simply can't support any more lockdowns. We did it. We flattened the curve. We got vaccinated in impressive numbers. We paid our dues.

Enough is enough.

We could have an Omicron wave ontop of the current delta one which is what's happening in numerous countries in Europe and USA. If Omicron spreads far quicker in those still vulnerable groups, then it can very quickly put a lot of pressure on our healthcare system.

 

[Bayer]

In my case, online learning was an unmitigated disaster. Socialization is essential, and some of you here are seriously underrating just how crucial it is for development. I simply can't support any more lockdowns. We did it. We flattened the curve. We got vaccinated in impressive numbers. We paid our dues.

Enough is enough.

Unfortunately, indications are it will take very little time to demonstrate that we haven't flattened anything, as Norway and Denmark are forecasting. The only choice is to implement more restrictions now.

 

[Jonny5]

Omicron growth.
Note the y-axis scale is logarithmic, so you can expect the growth of Omicron from 1% to 10% and from 10% to 50% to take about the same as it did to go from 0.1% to 1%, which was a few days or so; definitely less than one week.

That means that by the end of the month Omicron will be everywhere in Ontario. Unvaccinated people now face a very high risk of hospitalisation simply by walking down the street and passing any other person, in any Ontario city.
It's already too late to stop that, but still not too late to limit it on some level.

 

[DirectionNorth]

We could have an Omicron wave ontop of the current delta one which is what's happening in numerous countries in Europe and USA. If Omicron spreads far quicker in those still vulnerable groups, then it can very quickly put a lot of pressure on our healthcare system.

OK, so close the less essential things first? How about alternative solutions like vaccine mandates (which already exist for other vaccines) for school children?

Now that you can't win on education and mental health, going to avoid it entirely?

Unfortunately, indications are it will take very little time to demonstrate that we haven't flattened anything, as Norway and Denmark are forecasting. The only choice is to implement more restrictions now.

Omicron growth.
Note the y-axis scale is logarithmic, so you can expect the growth of Omicron from 1% to 10% and from 10% to 50% to take about the same as it did to go from 0.1% to 1%, which was a few days or so; definitely less than one week.

That means that by the end of the month Omicron will be everywhere in Ontario. Unvaccinated people now face a very high risk of hospitalisation simply by walking down the street and passing any other person, in any Ontario city.
It's already too late to stop that, but still not too late to limit it on some level.

View attachment 368994

If we based everything on case numbers, we might as well lock everything down forever, with the toughest restrictions. That's a ludicrous idea, and if I proposed it, you would be right to call me out.

If the unvaccinated are going to be the carriers of the disease, how about more vaccine-related restrictions? The first response shouldn't be "lockdown," it should be "how can we slow/stop growth using the least restrictions."

 

[Bayer]

OK, so close the less essential things first? How about alternative solutions like vaccine mandates (which already exist for other vaccines) for school children?

Now that you can't win on education and mental health, going to avoid it entirely?



If we based everything on case numbers, we might as well lock everything down forever, with the toughest restrictions. That's a ludicrous idea, and if I proposed it, you would be right to call me out.

If the unvaccinated are going to be the carriers of the disease, how about more vaccine-related restrictions? The first response shouldn't be "lockdown," it should be "how can we slow/stop growth using the least restrictions."

There are lots of data about omicron out there. It is much, much more transmissible than the delta variant; even if it turns out to be much less dangerous, so many people will get infected so quickly that hospitalizations will still rise and hospitals will be overwhelmed. Additionally, vaccines are much less effective against it. Boosters help a lot, but not enough people have received one yet. So yes, I would be in favour of immediate restrictions involving private gatherings as well as bars, restaurants, and any indoor places where people take out their masks. Mental health and education are obviously important, but this is definitely a public health emergency, it has to be prioritized, and it really doesn't matter that we're tired of it. It's already too late for debates.

 

[DirectionNorth]

There are lots of data about omicron out there. It is much, much more transmissible than the delta variant; even if it turns out to be much less dangerous, so many people will get infected so quickly that hospitalizations will still rise and hospitals will be overwhelmed. Additionally, vaccines are much less effective against it. Boosters help a lot, but not enough people have received one yet. So yes, I would be in favour of immediate restrictions involving private gatherings as well as bars, restaurants, and any indoor places where people take out their masks. Mental health and education are obviously important, but this is definitely a public health emergency, it has to be prioritized, and it really doesn't matter that we're tired of it. It's already too late for debates.

Is this satirical?

"It's too late for debates." There's nothing you've said to back it up, other than "it's important."

 

[Bayer]

Is this satirical?

"It's too late for debates." There's nothing you've said to back it up, other than "it's important."

The information is out there in the mainstream media and seeing as I have to work for a living, I will let you find it. You can also read the Twitter feeds of Dr. Eric Topol and Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (who was among the first to see a pandemic coming and was called an alarmist), and read the headlines about case forecasts from Norway and Denmark, or even about the new restrictions in Kingston. Edit: another opinion. https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-covid-omicron-exponential-growth-1.6283812

 

[Richard White]

Potential news coming at 3 PM. Not sure if it is good, bad or lockdown but it is an unscheduled last minute press conference.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1470749597773578247

 

[picard102]

it really doesn't matter that we're tired of it

It does. Governments are run by people. Other people elect those people.
If the public no longer has an appetite to prevent a smaller and smaller number of people from dying from a preventable death then the government will act with that in mind.
We've already seen them cave to public sentiment earlier in the pandemic and delay lockdowns in much more severe scenarios than this one.

 

[PinkLucy]

Quebec is no longer recommending a booster shot for those 70+ who have had COVID. https://www.ledevoir.com/societe/sa...D3NrL20J44ZVaMyj1BvXGb2LKy1gIyIwWn9w837RvvOck