[wopchop]

Is it standard practice to pay bidders such a princely amount? Why should we pay them to bid when the exclusivity of getting a billion dollar contract should be incentive enough? Right now big companies can do whatever they want. regardless if they get the bid they score this massive cash participation prize. If they're that big they ought to be working hard on their own dime to create a successful bid that won't just balloon the budget nor mysteriously gain 5 years of delays as soon as its signed.

When i prepare my fee proposals for prospective jobs I sure don't expect to be paid by the biddee to do it....

What prevents them from paying out $20MM participation prizes to contractors with no shot is the RFQ process. That is when you weed out the unqualified who would tank the job, and force collaboration (creation of consortiums) that should help deliver the job.
When the money involved in preparing a bid is so huge, if you didn't compensate the bidders you would see less bidders and therefore less price competition. That isn't good for the Owner.

Many contractors do in fact charge for estimates/consultations when they involve a significant amount of work. It depends on the project type and contract structure.

 

[Bordercollie]

What prevents them from paying out $20MM participation prizes to contractors with no shot is the RFQ process. That is when you weed out the unqualified who would tank the job, and force collaboration (creation of consortiums) that should help deliver the job.
When the money involved in preparing a bid is so huge, if you didn't compensate the bidders you would see less bidders and therefore less price competition. That isn't good for the Owner.

Many contractors do in fact charge for estimates/consultations when they involve a significant amount of work. It depends on the project type and contract structure.

Even with the 20millon the bidders are not making money. The staff and hours required just to draft a proposal will take a team of 10 working full time for 6 months.

 

[wopchop]

Even with the 20millon the bidders are not making money. The staff and hours required just to draft a proposal will take a team of 10 working full time for 6 months.

Yes exactly, and I don't mean to suggest that it does make them money. It simply helps offset
costs.

 

[Bordercollie]

Yes exactly, and I don't mean to suggest that it does make them money. It simply helps offset
costs.

The other thing I forgot to say was that usually once the three potential bidders are shortlisted, the RFP is usually written so that a specific bidder will win.

 

[kEiThZ]

Even with the 20millon the bidders are not making money. The staff and hours required just to draft a proposal will take a team of 10 working full time for 6 months.

An RFP response for a potentially $25B with some self-financing will involve way more than 10 people...

 

[kEiThZ]

The other thing I forgot to say was that usually once the three potential bidders are shortlisted, the RFP is usually written so that a specific bidder will win.

Ummm. No. Bidders drop out if that happens. And there are times where contracts literally go "no bid" if bidders don't think there's enough profit potential or a realistic shot at winning.

 

[crs1026]

I went poking through the recent Federal budget document to look for any further information on the VIA Long Distance equipment maintenance provision.

The chart showing the cash flow is below.

It looks like a "crash" program (poor choice of words, perhaps) with over half of the money spent immediately and the rest allocated a few years out for the next phase of refurbishment.

I interpret that as a decision to address whatever findings the recent tests and inspections revealed, and some other predicted issues arising over time.

That also implies that the procurement for a next generation fleet is going to take a while, ie the current fleet does have life left in it.

- Paul

some next

 

[Bordercollie]

I went poking through the recent budget document to look for any further information on the VIA Long Distance equipment maintenance provision.

The chart showing the cash flow is below.

It looks like a "crash" program (poor choice of words, perhaps) with over half of the money spent immediately and the rest allocated a few years out for the next phase of refurbishment.

I interpret that as a decision to address whatever findings the recent tests and inspections revealed, and some other predicted issues arising over time.

That also implies that the procurement for a next generation fleet is going to take a while.

- Paul

View attachment 465937
some next

I wonder how they are going to rebuild cars that were determined to be too costly? They tried to make them wheel chair accessible and add wifi but it was cancelled due to cost. So now that the money is available they are going to go through with the project? Forward backwards forward again?

 

[roger1818]

I went poking through the recent Federal budget document to look for any further information on the VIA Long Distance equipment maintenance provision.

The chart showing the cash flow is below.

It looks like a "crash" program (poor choice of words, perhaps) with over half of the money spent immediately and the rest allocated a few years out for the next phase of refurbishment.

I interpret that as a decision to address whatever findings the recent tests and inspections revealed, and some other predicted issues arising over time.

That also implies that the procurement for a next generation fleet is going to take a while, ie the current fleet does have life left in it.

- Paul

View attachment 465937
some next

Wouldn't that "Investing in VIA Rail Trains and Services" in 2023-24 mostly be the final payment on the new corridor fleet?

 

[nfitz]

Even with the 20millon the bidders are not making money. The staff and hours required just to draft a proposal will take a team of 10 working full time for 6 months.

10 working full time for 6 months? So about 10,000 hours?

That's $2,000 an hour. If they can't make money at that rate, there's a big problem

Though I expect that it's more work than that - though even 100 working full-time for 12 months is $100 an hour, which at least (more than) covers the wages.

 

[crs1026]

Wouldn't that "Investing in VIA Rail Trains and Services" in 2023-24 mostly be the final payment on the new corridor fleet?

The narrative text - which cites the $210M amount - specified that this money would be for non-corridor trains, so I connected that dot to the chart. (pg 106)

I couldn't find any really comprehensive numbers for spending on VIA Rail generally in the budget document - it seems to mostly cite new initiatives. Where they account for the Siemens trains, I'm not sure.

- Paul

 

[Bordercollie]

10 working full time for 6 months? So about 10,000 hours?

That's $2,000 an hour. If they can't make money at that rate, there's a big problem

Though I expect that it's more work than that - though even 100 working full-time for 12 months is $100 an hour, which at least (more than) covers the wages.

That doesn't include all the engineering work required in the background. And there are multiple bidders. So divide the total between all of the bidders.

 

[roger1818]

Interesting video describing the history of the joint VIA/Amtrak International Limited.

 

[just east of the creek]

Lessons learned?

I’ll give VIA partial credits for improvements in services when situations are abnormal. Yesterdays VIA 69 from Montreal was four fours late in arrival to Toronto Union, mainly delayed trying to get out of QC. Successive halts in Dorval ( one hour plus) and in the vicinity of Dorion and Coteau-du-lac (another hour plus? Sorry, napping at the time) and then crawling along in between. The pace did not really return until Bainsville. I think the lesson that was learned from :this years earlier episodes was improved communications as VIA staff did communicate reasons and estimated time of delay (electrical outages, signal issues leading to manual operations, and the fact that 69 had to clear at least two freights trying to move through as well operating under similar constraints.

i understand there were greater issues the day before, but then the day before was ridiculous for travel in the Greater Montreal area. Toronto would have been paralyzed as well.

VIA‘s websites did give advance general notice of possible severe delays, but to my knowledge, did not give specific advance notice ( or I missed it).

The other issue was on arrival, Union was closed up tight for the night - it was 2 a.m. Staff on hand (Via and Security) were helpful and friendly directing people to
routes leading out of the station, but a number of younger individuals travelling did have concerns about linking up with family members.

I can understand locking up Union as one had to deal with large numbers of ‘campers’ choking up the stairwell, indulging in performance art in the adjacent subway station (where there was a lot of security about) and given the security concerns these days around places of public transit, there were some people visibly concerned about transiting the area. Why we put up with this is an unknown to me.

One online tool my family appreciates is the VIA maps showing the train, speed, location and times to the next stations. Useful.

 

[Urban Sky]

Yesterdays VIA 69 from Montreal was four fours late in arrival to Toronto Union, mainly delayed trying to get out of QC. Successive halts in Dorval ( one hour plus) and in the vicinity of Dorion and Coteau-du-lac (another hour plus? Sorry, napping at the time) and then crawling along in between. The pace did not really return until Bainsville.

30‘ delayed departure, 3 hours delay accumulated between MTRL & CWLL and another 30‘ West of CWLL:

https://reservia.viarail.ca/tsi/GetTrainStatus.aspx?l=en&TsiCCode=VIA&TsiTrainNumber=69&TrainInstanceDate=2023-04-06