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Pretty sure the corridor can handle 15 min Oakville-Oshawa service while also running all the express services during peak. Maybe they pull an UPX and give us 15 min all day 7 day service later this year as there’s clear demand on all sides for it.
 
anb said:
Pretty sure the corridor can handle 15 min Oakville-Oshawa service while also running all the express services during peak. Maybe they pull an UPX and give us 15 min all day 7 day service later this year as there’s clear demand on all sides for it.
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They can, and I hope they do….. but….there is a limit and there are constraints.

LSW can run express trains on close headways in one direction only. That is adequate for a traditional commute-to-downtown-Toronto peak service, but it does not support counter flow improvements, and it constrains turnbacks and equipment moves (they follow between the locals, which makes problems for timing and utilisation ) and they greatly impede adding VIA service.

Restoring service to the max is a nice problem to have, but I hope there is a plan to quad track the LSW eventually.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
...... but I hope there is a plan to quad track the LSW eventually.

- Paul
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I know it has been discussed; but it strikes me that its not on the near-term radar given that they are comprehensively rebuilding Longbranch station, and not introducing a 4th track.

I had a quick gander, and it looks to me like they have room to fill in the missing 4th mainline track within the ROW and on the embankment, where applicable, as far west as Long Branch station. The first bridge widening requirement appears to be the one over Etobicoke Creek just to the west of Long Branch station.

@reaperexpress could doubtless tell us how far a fourth track extension would have to go, from Mimico, to pickup the first tangible benefit.

I think fourth tracking all the way to the Halton sub is probably a fairly expensive undertaking and less likely in the nearterm, but if there was a partial buildout that permitted significantly more service, even to Oakville, that might be something for which buy-in could be obtained.
 
Northern Light said:
I know it has been discussed; but it strikes me that its not on the near-term radar given that they are comprehensively rebuilding Longbranch station, and not introducing a 4th track.

I had a quick gander, and it looks to me like they have room to fill in the missing 4th mainline track within the ROW and on the embankment, where applicable, as far west as Long Branch station. The first bridge widening requirement appears to be the one over Etobicoke Creek just to the west of Long Branch station.

@reaperexpress could doubtless tell us how far a fourth track extension would have to go, from Mimico, to pickup the first tangible benefit.
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Yes, Metrolinx has long-term plans for quad-tracking all of the way to Burlington West (the interlocking just past Burlington Station). And there are shorter-term plans afoot for building a fourth mainline track through Aldershot.

But the problem is that the next round of expansion of the corridor beyond Canpa will have to take them all the way to Oakville, as there is no point in stopping short of it. And that's going to include some large bridge projects that are not going to be cheap.

Dan
 
anb said:
Pretty sure the corridor can handle 15 min Oakville-Oshawa service while also running all the express services during peak. Maybe they pull an UPX and give us 15 min all day 7 day service later this year as there’s clear demand on all sides for it.
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On the LSE side it may not be able to handle that service as the addition and modifications of tracks/bridges is still underway. If memory serves correct, the express trains won't return til summer '24 (at least that was the original plan).
 
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anb said:
Pretty sure the corridor can handle 15 min Oakville-Oshawa service while also running all the express services during peak. Maybe they pull an UPX and give us 15 min all day 7 day service later this year as there’s clear demand on all sides for it.
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So, here's where it gets a bit murky.

If it was strictly a 15 minute local service and peak-direction expresses on the west end, yeah it can be done, no sweat. The problem is that those peak-direction expresses need to originate from somewhere that is not beyond the end of the service, so they need to travel out from the middle of the line out to the end. And they need to do that while weaving between local trains and the inbound expresses.

And to top it off, the signal system on the Lakeshore lines is not nearly as capable as that on the Weston Sub, and can't run trains as tightly together.

The east end is even more complicated by the fact that Danforth to Don is currently only double-tracked. Because there are no stops in that stretch, the train speeds through there are generally high enough that it isn't too much of an issue - but then we run into the signal system's capacity issues again, which is better than the west but still isn't quite as good as the Weston. And then there's the outer section of the line from Guildwood out to the end of the line at Oshawa which is also double-tracked.

Dan
 
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Coolibop said:
Isn't it triple moving to quad?
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One track is currently out of service as they work on expanding the track bed and re-aligning the tracks. So yes, its triple in theory right now, but its double in practice.
 
smallspy said:
So, here's where it gets a bit murky.

If it was strictly a 15 minute local service and peak-direction expresses on the west end, yeah it can be done, no sweat. The problem is that those peak-direction expresses need to originate from somewhere that is not beyond the end of the service, so they need to travel out from the middle of the line out to the end. And they need to do that while weaving between local trains and the inbound expresses.

And to top it off, the signal system on the Lakeshore lines is not nearly as capable as that on the Weston Sub, and can't run trains as tightly together.

The east end is even more complicated by the fact that Danforth to Don is currently only double-tracked. Because there are no stops in that stretch, the train speeds through there are generally high enough that it isn't too much of an issue - but then we run into the signal system's capacity issues again, which is better than the west but still isn't quite as good as the Weston. And then there's the outer section of the line from Guildwood out to the end of the line at Oshawa which is also double-tracked.

Dan
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Wouldn't it be best to leave the current peak schedule to where its at now for the West side, as all trains regardless of express/local stop at Clarkson and Oakville anyway. It wouldn't make sense to continue running just Oakville-Union except for the trips that are already implemented into the schedule currently and if the corridor can even handle those extra trips without causing any trouble. If the East side can't run 15 min service both ways right now then what about 20 mins?
 
anb said:
Wouldn't it be best to leave the current peak schedule to where its at now for the West side, as all trains regardless of express/local stop at Clarkson and Oakville anyway. It wouldn't make sense to continue running just Oakville-Union except for the trips that are already implemented into the schedule currently and if the corridor can even handle those extra trips without causing any trouble. If the East side can't run 15 min service both ways right now then what about 20 mins?
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They are leaving the current peak schedule where it is for now. And it's not far off of what used to run before COVID (although the expresses were spaced out a bit differently back then). And while there is still room for improvement of the schedules, there is a pretty hard limit as to what the fixed plant is currently capable of.

But they want to still improve upon it beyond that as well. So that's why other improvements are necessary, such as additional track, or improved signalling - or both.

The east side can run 15 minute service (or better) today, so long as all the trains are operating the same service. The expresses screw things up because they are running a higher average speed and need to pass the slower locals, which is why they've temporarily cancelled them.

Dan
 
robmausser said:
Ive kinda not been paying attention, it seems like rather than seasonal GO train changes they just kinda change things on the fly when they feel like it now? more adaptable but I could see people getting pissed that didn't know their 6:30am train is now 6:10 or something.

Or maybe they only add new service willy nilly.
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They haven't need to follow the change of card since the service stopped being operated by CN and CP.

Dan
 
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