[kotsy]

Updates from today:
On a related note, the stretch of Manitoba drive North of the Food Building was being paved today. After that area reopens, it will be possible to get closer to work going on under the Gardiner. Thankfully a high megapixel camera allows me to crop in considerably in the mean time.

 

[nstuch]

I’m a little confused. Was this stretch of the Gardiner not redone back in 2014? I remember it being reduced to 2 lanes for an extended period of time, and it reopened before the Pan Am games.

I believe this is the next section west of that, only 800 metres, but somehow going to take 4 years.

 

[kotsy]

I believe this is the next section west of that, only 800 metres, but somehow going to take 4 years.

Are you accounting for delays? The plan is 3 years, but also they're looking into switching to 24/7 work to get it done quicker. Whether that actually happens is another story.

 

[kotsy]

 

[Northern Light]

Story in today's Star detailing some of the work here.

With the Gardiner construction, there’s more to it than meets the eye. Here’s what’s happening ‘behind the scenes’

One common complaint over the three-year project is that it looks like not much is going on. So we asked for more details on what’s happening.

www.thestar.com

Notable items:

Girders to be replaced (the metal beams running under the deck)

Bents will not be replaced but require shoring/foundation work to make sure they're stable w/o the girders over the top.

35 bents will be rehabilitated.

New Traffic Management System

New Streetlights

Baseline Construction Schedule is Monday to Saturday 7am-11pm. Periodic work Sundays/Overnights as required.

Work will begin on the south side of the expressway when current lane shifting efforts are complete.

 

[duty free]

what a disaster / money pit this monstrosity is.

should have torn it down when they had the chance.

 

[turbanplanner]

what a disaster / money pit this monstrosity is.

should have torn it down when they had the chance.

disagree, traffic would be way worse and lakeshore would be no better

 

[duty free]

disagree, traffic would be way worse and lakeshore would be no better

couldn't the lost capacity from the Gardiner be made up with more lanes along Lakeshore? wouldn't traffic flow more efficiently as a result? have you tried to merge onto the Gardiner between Jarvis and Dufferin lately? the Gardiner's on ramps take up tons of space. how many lanes of traffic could go there instead?

the highway itself also has a built in bottlenecks and choke points many times along its route that make it inefficient for traffic flow. tearing down similar elevated highways in the core seems to always have a net positive result. not sure what makes Toronto unique in that regard.

 

[turbanplanner]

couldn't the lost capacity from the Gardiner be made up with more lanes along Lakeshore? wouldn't traffic flow more efficiently as a result? have you tried to merge onto the Gardiner between Jarvis and Dufferin lately? the Gardiner's on ramps take up tons of space. how many lanes of traffic could go there instead?

the highway itself also has a built in bottlenecks and choke points many times along its route that make it inefficient for traffic flow. tearing down similar elevated highways in the core seems to always have a net positive result. not sure what makes Toronto unique in that regard.

Aside from the speed limit and lights on lakeshore meaning the same trip would be a lot longer, you can't add lanes in a lot of spots (ex, around ontario place) Whenever something is going on at bud/cne/you name it lakeshore is a parking lot. Having a highway shoulder helps the ambulances coming to hospital row. Also a crash on one doesn't totally nullify the other but then basically all east/west traffic would stop.

 

[nfitz]

couldn't the lost capacity from the Gardiner be made up with more lanes along Lakeshore? wouldn't traffic flow more efficiently as a result?

The original plan was to end the Gardiner near Dufferin, run into the Front Street Extension just north of the Lakeshore tracks, and let it flow into downtown. In the east, the traffic would all go onto Richmond/Adelaide, and the Don Roadway.

Lakeshore would be a lot more functional then.

 

[drum118]

One thing they need to do is get rid the ability to turn left at York St from the Simcoe off ramp as it is a stopper for traffic on the Lake Shore who want to go east of York.

Took me 5 lights to get cross York and most likely had been faster to use QQW from Rees St and this wasn't peak time.

I saw this as a great mistake not forcing traffic to use Bay St to turn left as it was being built and being a major issue and accidents waiting to happen.

Waterfront Toronto would opposed anymore lanes for the Lake Shore as plan as it would mean lost of income from lost of land for development.

Will we every see the Yonge off ramp and the removal of the Jarvis off Ramp??

 

[turbanplanner]

One thing they need to do is get rid the ability to turn left at York St from the Simcoe off ramp as it is a stopper for traffic on the Lake Shore who want to go east of York.

Took me 5 lights to get cross York and most likely had been faster to use QQW from Rees St and this wasn't peak time.

I saw this as a great mistake not forcing traffic to use Bay St to turn left as it was being built and being a major issue and accidents waiting to happen.

Waterfront Toronto would opposed anymore lanes for the Lake Shore as plan as it would mean lost of income from lost of land for development.

Will we every see the Yonge off ramp and the removal of the Jarvis off Ramp??

The funny part is the part after the left turn (going north south) can fit like 5 cars max as well and it's not coordinated with the light to pass under the gardiner

 

[kotsy]

May 6th Update

Some lighting be installed in the work zone on top followed by the dug up area near Dufferin Gate - north of Centennial Park

 

[zang]

disagree, traffic would be way worse and lakeshore would be no better

For a while, then traffic would likely be better overall. There’s plenty of evidence of this exact thing happening all over North America when highways are removed. There’s nothing special about Toronto to say it’ll be any different.

Aside from the speed limit and lights on lakeshore meaning the same trip would be a lot longer, you can't add lanes in a lot of spots (ex, around ontario place)

After more than 80 years since induced demand was first observed, can we stop flogging the idea that adding lanes in any way helps?

Whenever something is going on at bud/cne/you name it lakeshore is a parking lot.

So, my friend, is the Gardiner. These drivers could opt for the GO, which has direct or very close connections to most big stadiums along the lake.

Having a highway shoulder helps the ambulances coming to hospital row. Also a crash on one doesn't totally nullify the other but then basically all east/west traffic would stop.

It does already anyways. A stoppage on one right now just diverts traffic to the other; then that one becomes a parking lot too.

 

[turbanplanner]

For a while, then traffic would likely be better overall. There’s plenty of evidence of this exact thing happening all over North America when highways are removed. There’s nothing special about Toronto to say it’ll be any different.



After more than 80 years since induced demand was first observed, can we stop flogging the idea that adding lanes in any way helps?



So, my friend, is the Gardiner. These drivers could opt for the GO, which has direct or very close connections to most big stadiums along the lake.


It does already anyways. A stoppage on one right now just diverts traffic to the other; then that one becomes a parking lot too.

Everyone here treats induced demand like it works exactly the same 100% of the time. NOBODY is driving for fun. The TTC and go are not an alternative for a lot of trips that happen.
Having more lanes and routes means a crash doesn't bring east west movement in the city to a halt. The TTC had it's 3rd fire in a week today.

Induced demand also states removing lanes will lead traffic to go down but that didn't happen because it's not a magical rule. Toronto has the busiest stretch of highway in the world people are not driving if they have a reasonable alternative. have you EVER taken the go during an event? it's miserable! I don't take it because aside from all the drunk people coming out of a jays game or BMO field. The crowding is insane even when extra trains are brought in. The go lots in Toronto on lakeshore west have only a handful of spots as well. I've driven to long branch and mimico only to come across a full lot 4 hours before the game stated.

Stop acting like everything is a silver bullet. We need investment in all modes