I thought it was supposed to be 6 underground levels, which would mean a little deeper. Looks like they've done 3-4 levels so far.

Thanks for all the updates Solaris
 
what?? what for???
 
That's very strange... I am pretty certain that Shangri-La was completely approved by the city.

Maybe they're asking for additional density (floors) and the city refused them outright?
 
I'm not sure of the reason for the OMB hearing. We might have to wait until the hearing to find out. (Normally you can call the OMB and request an appointment to see any active or closed file, but given that it's only two days away I imagine it would be easier just to check out the hearing...)
 
Thx Solaris for the pics!! :)

Bizarre news about the OMB....City Council definitely approved the original proposal at its full height..
 
This could possibly be a new tactic that developers could be engaged in where they intentionally over-engineer their buildings, and then after construction has been approved and has begun, they can spring a height-increase out of their hats, and take the city to the OMB by surprise, and possibly increase their chances of gaining extra heights, while also avoiding Section 37 on that additional height. They really have nothing to loose except a relatively small amount of money, especially those behind Shangri-La..
 
This appeal reflects just how ridiculous the planning process is sometimes... Here we have an approved $400 million+ development with enormous spin-off benefits (construction jobs, tourism, taxes) and when the developer submitted a site-plan application (no major changes at all) and the city planning staff missed the deadline for an appropriate response... the developer had to appeal to the OMB to light a fire under the city.

Ridiculous waste of time and money. I would have thought that a $400 million project in downtown, requesting a virtually unchanged siteplan approval, might be somewhere near the top of the pile of files that overworked staff have to maintain.

Are all the planning staff off sick...? Mike?
 
hkric88 said:
This could possibly be a new tactic that developers could be engaged in where they intentionally over-engineer their buildings, and then after construction has been approved and has begun, they can spring a height-increase out of their hats, and take the city to the OMB by surprise, and possibly increase their chances of gaining extra heights, while also avoiding Section 37 on that additional height. They really have nothing to loose except a relatively small amount of money, especially those behind Shangri-La..
Click to expand...


Sec 37 agreements could still be negotiated with the city or awarded by the OMB. Even if they were avoided, the cost is negligible compared to the other costs and risks associated with the gamble/tactic that you are suggesting. Most developers I know don't engage in the gambling that you are suggesting - especially in the current economic climate.
 
3Dementia said:
This appeal reflects just how ridiculous the planning process is sometimes... Here we have an approved $400 million+ development with enormous spin-off benefits (construction jobs, tourism, taxes) and when the developer submitted a site-plan application (no major changes at all) and the city planning staff missed the deadline for an appropriate response... the developer had to appeal to the OMB to light a fire under the city.

Ridiculous waste of time and money. I would have thought that a $400 million project in downtown, requesting a virtually unchanged siteplan approval, might be somewhere near the top of the pile of files that overworked staff have to maintain.

Are all the planning staff off sick...? Mike?
Click to expand...

3D,

This is an ongoing problem with the city. Essentially the city is very short staffed, and since the mid-to-late 90s there has been little if any expansion of city planning staff and budget belt tightening. So they don't have the capacity to deal with all the applications coming in (I take issue with some of the budgeting due to the very high and ever increasing planning fees paid by applicants for the work to be done). The other major symptom of this staffing issue is that there is little to no 'visioning' work down - so rather than actually planning, the City of Toronto Planning Department spends more time reacting - which is why we end of with situations like the Queen West Triangle - no work is done in advance for a prime future growth area and then the city and community react and scramble when developers show up with their plans (it was an area where growth was going and more work should have been done prior to the applications – in fact not much work was done or proper staffing allocated to those applications which is why the OMB was left to make the final decisions). Not only is the city short planning staff - but there has been a huge amount of turn over in the senior staff the last couple of years and a lot of good people have left. Although the new Chief Planner Gary Wright appears to be a very solid man for the job.... Despite that, there are ongoing staffing and budget problems in the department.

I don't know the specifics of this particular OMB case, but the OMB does put tension in the system to "light a fire under the city" as you put it, to get the work done in a semi-reasonable amount of time. The province actually doubled the time-lines for municipal responses prior to appeals being allowed to the OMB in Bill 26 a few years ago. Despite that, too many applications aren't dealt with in a timely manner and are then appealed to the OMB when the applicant becomes frustrated and response deadlines have been exceeded... not the best way to build and plan a city, but that's the current reality of the situation.
 
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