ssiguy2
Senior Member
That would be a good thing. If the City can't gather the fortitude to put transit ahead of cars, then any new LRT would be a colossal waste of money and they sure won't get a nickel from Queen's Park.
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McGillicuddy
Active Member
Queen's Park won't give a single nickel that inconveniences a driver as long as Doug Ford's around.
Rainforest
Senior Member
That will never happen. Noone is going to fund that kind of rebuild.
You would have to rebuild the Laird to Don Mills section as a tunnel. And then, rebuild the Don Mills Stn itself, add 2 more tracks so it can serve as a terminus for both the western and the eastern line.
What would you gain?
- The eastern section doesn't become any faster
- The western section becomes a bit faster, and a bit easier to operate, but the improvements are minor
- The riders yell and scream that they lost the ability to travel across Don Mills without a transfer, basically for no gains that matter to them
- Other transit riders yell and scream that Eglinton is getting the funding twice in a row, while they are getting zilch
- And worst of all, you do not gain a lot of capacity in the western section, that is now fully grade separated. The trains can run a bit more frequently, but then you hit the next capacity bottleneck, which likely to be the size of platforms and the capacity of elevators / stairs. A tansit line designed for 10k to 13k PPHPD, does not turn into a 30k+ transit line, just because you removed one section.
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urbanclient
Active Member
Even though the potential to screw up a driverless metro with platform screen doors is lower than a mixed grade LRT with two tunnels, I wouldn't put it past Metrolinx and the TTC to somehow screw that up as well. At least a driverless metro with PSD usually has >99% service reliability.
There is just a higher floor for automated metro than a overly complicated Line 5 with bespoke subsystems. A badly run LRT is much worse than a badly run metro.
"You learn the lesson all commuters must know immediately: when something really matters, you leave early or take an Uber, but you never rely on the TTC. [...]
In most major cities, the transit experience is reversed. Hong Kong’s Mass Transit Railway system (MTR) operates at a 99.9 per cent on-time rate; Dubai reaches 99.7 per cent; New York, even with its aging system, sits at 84 per cent. Vancouver operates around 96 per cent."
It's disingenuous to compare a brand new LRT with a subway system up to 71 years old , when you should be comparing LRT to modern metro. The TTC's subway service reliability as well as 𝚊̶𝚕̶𝚕̶-̶𝚖̶𝚘̶𝚍̶𝚎̶* surface on-time rate of 57.98% [1] is much lower than the typical >99% for automated metro w/ PSDs. A big part of the never ending slow zones is the lack of funding to upgrade to ballastless track, as is the standard for modern metros. Penny wise pound foolish.
*correction
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jordanmkasla2009
Active Member
Edmonton didn't though. A trip on the Valley Line LRT from Mill Woods to 102nd Street takes 30 minutes.
Kyle Campbell
Senior Member
Don't put too much faith in reliability as a measure. Nobody would consider the confederation line a shining beacon of success, but it usually has a 99.8% reliability rating as defined by it's contract. I'm sure Eglinton will as well, but it's likely not going to feel like it
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urbanclient
Active Member
You're splitting hairs and missing the point of what I am saying. Of course I mean an independent third-party's definition of reliability, on-time rates, other metrics etc... I thought I didn't need to point out the obvious more than I already regularly do. Noone out here is claiming the O-Train is as reliable as the MTR or even the SkyTrain, even though different numbers from different people based on different definitions might make one believe so. Read the report linked in the CityNews article from above if you have the time. That's where the 57.98% 𝚊̶𝚕̶𝚕̶-̶𝚖̶𝚘̶𝚍̶𝚎̶ surface transit on-time rate comes from. "Guelph has the most reliable transit with an on-time score of 88%, followed by Hamilton at 82%,and Burlington, Mississauga and Waterloo at 79%. Toronto had the least reliable surface transit at 58%."
TTC's definition of subway service reliability based on headway adherence gives ~ a 1.5 to 3 minute buffer, which would be unimaginably late in Japan. For the purpose's of any useful comparison the authors are not going to blindly accept the word of each agency. Self-reported metrics are the "we've investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing" numbers.
Transit Report Cards
With chronic congestion costing us $11B annually in lost productivity, driving talent out of our region and slowing post-pandemic recovery, transit has a critical role to play.
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zang
Senior Member
I call BS on this. We have one of the most pro-transit mayors in history. The city is trying everything it can, but we have a province determined to stick its nose in anything the city wants to do.
I won’t be surprised if more active transit priority hasn’t already been kiboshed by Ford behind the scenes. I guarantee there are dozens of stories like this that have been kept quiet if only because our mayor wants to keep diplomatic lines open with our bully of a Premier:
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ARG1
Senior Member
Source: You made it up.I call BS on this. We have one of the most pro-transit mayors in history. The city is trying everything it can, but we have a province determined to stick its nose in anything the city wants to do.
I won’t be surprised if more active transit priority hasn’t already been kiboshed by Ford behind the scenes. I guarantee there are dozens of stories like this that have been kept quiet if only because our mayor wants to keep diplomatic lines open with our bully of a Premier:
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Its been quite clear over the past few months that the line being slow and no active priority has been entirely on the city. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this blame shifting.
robmausser
Senior Member
Chow might have her opinions but she is utterly incompetent and useless of a mayor. Having good opinions on things doesn't make you a good mayor. She had two years to know about the Line 6 issues for example and did nothing and is only surprisingly reacting to them now.
nfitz
Superstar
Why tunnel? There's but a single intersection, at Leslie.
What's wrong with my much, much, cheaper suggestion of re-engineering the roadway and CP rail bridge to squeeze an extra eastbound lane on the north side of the tracks, for the two troublesome turning movements? You'd still need lights for pedestrians, but they can 100% be only used when there's no LRVs in sight (which is how I assume the pedestrian crossing I never use at Queen Quay station work).
You could probably re-engineer the roads for next two crossings (the turning lanes for the DVP) as well. And eliminate the Swift/Credit Union lights. This would drop the problematic length with intersection to about 3.5 km.
zang
Senior Member
So posting a news article stating that the province is behind the scenes hobbling what the city can do (especially when it comes to cars) has no bearing on anything? C'mon.
ThenWhat
Active Member
Feel free to judge politicians by their words.
I prefer to judge them by their actions.
PL1
Senior Member
I think you overestimate what a mayor can do over a provincial project. I'm sure there's lots of blame to go around, but TTC only got the line a few weeks back
McGillicuddy
Active Member
I would love it if you could give me the name of a single person who could be elected mayor, and who would have singlehandedly fixed Line 6 in just two years, under the exact same circumstances and with the exact same city council Olivia Chow has to deal with.
And don't try to give me Andy Byford or whoever. I want the name of a person who would have been a credible, serious candidate in that 2023 mayoral byelection. Mayors get elected, not installed: if they aren't electable, they don't count.