[Kyle Campbell]

If Transport Canada has placed an edict on platform speeds, then that's specific to Ottawa as there is no such regulation on any other system anywhere in Canada.

Dan

It may actually be specific to Ottawa. They had a set of unique rules approved by TC, though I can't find the actual list, just the reference to the meeting

55. City of Ottawa Capital Railway Trillium Line

City of Ottawa Capital Railway – Trillium Line

tc.canada.ca

 

[Kyle Campbell]

It's not a done deal because:
- If we don't criticize what went wrong in the project planning process they will keep making the same mistakes in future projects
- Many of those things can still be fixed by additional investment. Like you said, the Line 2 upgrade was fairly cheap by Canadian standards and that's because they omitted so many useful upgrades. To the point that there are multiple items in the Ottawa Transportation Master Plan that are to fix up Line 2/4. Notably extending the second track through Walkley station to improve headways to 10 minutes and reduce travel times by a couple minutes. The best time to do that work would have been while the line was shut down, but since that didn't happen we should be talking about when we would like to go back and do it.

Yes! Those systems are even worse than Line 2! The Finch LRT is slower than the local bus it's replacing, despite having half as many stops and a dedicated ROW!

In terms of making the most of what we have, I definitely agree with making double track from Mooney's Bay to Walkley, and the full distance from Corso Italia to Dows lake. The single track sections through the tunnel and the Rideau River bridge are manageable. The goal would be to get to that fabled 8 minute headway. That would allow the currently nearly useless line 4 to interline and make it a way more viable connection.

In terms of extensions, the dropped connection to downtown Hull should be added back, with the Gatineau Tramway going to Sparks now I don't think the original worries about capacity constraints at Bayview are as big. I'd also extend all the way to Riverview. Their current plan of doing it as a busway is not going to generate any ridership. Nobody uses the Riverview Park and ride right now, they all drive down to Bowesville and get on the train now instead

 

[ARG1]

with the Gatineau Tramway going to Sparks now I don't think the original worries about capacity constraints at Bayview are as big.

I'm sorry... when did this happen? I wasn't aware that the alignment has been chosen already, and even though I do think sparks is better, I thought it was open and shut to go down Wellington.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

I'm sorry... when did this happen? I wasn't aware that the alignment has been chosen already, and even though I do think sparks is better, I thought it was open and shut to go down Wellington.

They had flipped so many times, I thought it was still in the air. But I guess it has been settled, maybe, to Wellington

 

[lrt's friend]

Wellington is an awful location for rail. Any major celebration or protest will interrupt service. This is unacceptable. We just moved STO buses off of Wellington to Albert and Slater. At least buses can be moved if Wellington was blocked, which happened in the past

 

[CapitalSeven]

I agree Wellington is a poor choice. I don't think any decision has been announced. The city likes Sparks, and NCC likes Wellington. One costs a lot, the other is a poor transportation choice. So are there other alternatives? There seems to be an embargo on imagination, except that the Gatineau line may itself prove imaginary.

 

[ARG1]

I agree Wellington is a poor choice. I don't think any decision has been announced. The city likes Sparks, and NCC likes Wellington. One costs a lot, the other is a poor transportation choice. So are there other alternatives? There seems to be an embargo on imagination, except that the Gatineau line may itself prove imaginary.

The NCC likes Wellington because they want to make a tram loop that also goes over the Alexandra bridge and serves destination like the Art Gallery and and Museum of History. From a connectivity, capacity, and redundancy point of view there are a lot of benefits. However, the whole "shutting down Wellington whenever a protest happens" is a MASSIVE drawback. Also apparently they do not want wires in front of parliament so a Wellington alignment would require batteries... I think. I don't remember where I read this and someone could correct me.

 

[lrt's friend]

If you read streetcar history in Ottawa, the federal government never wanted streetcars and their wires in front of Parliament. Why a change of heart, I don't get it. If anybody has been to Ottawa on Canada Day, Wellington is the worst place for rail transit.

Running surface rail in downtown back with the 2006 plan was complained about that it could be blocked and that was 3 blocks south. I suspect that some of the complainers then are now big supporters of Rail on Wellington. It baffles me.

As far as a downtown loop is concerned, how does Wellington Tram get to the Interprovincial bridge? Historically, Hull Electric ran streetcars across that bridge until 1946. There was a turn loop next to the Chateau but this was below the bridge at Confederation Square. The loop is still there but hidden from public view.

I am not keen on a downtown loop unless trams from the Ottawa side could also use it. I am not happy how the South end is disconnected from downtown but that is another story. The transfers at Hurdman and Bayview can both give you a 10 minute delay.

 

[CapitalSeven]

I would love for someone to design an actual tram loop and stations going through the Wellington/Elgin/Rideau/Sussex intersection(s) and then subject it to a computer model for rail, bus, vehicle, bike, and pedestrian flows. Maybe, just maybe, you could do a one-way counterclockwise loop, but trying to do two ways would pretty much lead to gridlock. If I were blue-skying this, I'd say either an underground link to Lyon, end of story, or a new bridge to an underground link ending at Parliament. Trying to jam in all these surface plans while keeping about half of the Gatineau buses, building three sets of parallel bike lanes within the downtown, and narrowing or closing every east-west road north of Gloucester is just a massive clusteration.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

OC transpo released some numbers today

Line 2 and 4 usage (combined but almost entirely line 2): 24.4k trips, which would put it slightly ahead of Ion.

Line 1 managed 246k trips on Canada Day, double it's normal average and it's highest ridership ever. It's also well above the entire average daily ridership of many subway systems, like MARTA and BART (175k and 100k respectively). It kind of reinforces line 1 should have been a full scale metro, it has metro levels of ridership

https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/oc-transpo-wrapped-2025/

 

[Bojaxs]

OC transpo released some numbers today

Line 2 and 4 usage (combined but almost entirely line 2): 24.4k trips, which would put it slightly ahead of Ion.

Line 1 managed 246k trips on Canada Day, double it's normal average and it's highest ridership ever. It's also well above the entire average daily ridership of many subway systems, like MARTA and BART (175k and 100k respectively). It kind of reinforces line 1 should have been a full scale metro, it has metro levels of ridership

https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/oc-transpo-wrapped-2025/

The whole situation with Line 1 is beyond frustrating if you consider that it IS Metro, but it uses the wrong rolling stock.

Such a boneheaded decision by Ottawa City council to move forward with the Citadis Spirits after the decision was made to completely grade separate the line.

It's going to take such a massive effort to correct this mistake.

Why Ottawa’s Citadis Spirit trains will never work

Summary The City of Ottawa bought the wrong trains for Line 1 (Confederation Line), using the wrong process, and then doubled down by buying more of the wrong trains for Line 1 Stage 2, and now we&…

manifestomultilinko2.wordpress.com

 

[legoswmonkey]

Has the feasibility of replacing the Spirit's with more standard metro rolling stock once their lifespan ends been discussed here? I imagine the loading gauge of the tunnel is the main constraint.

 

[lrt's friend]

Line 1 was supposed to have 250K riders per day from day one. If we can convince the public service to go back to the office, numbers will start approaching that, but Ottawa has also wrecked the overall transit network since 2019 so rebuilding public confidence will be challenging. The Ontario government has screwed Ottawa ever since the 2006 debacle. Ottawa is deeply in debt as a result paying well over 50% of capital costs of rail construction .

Ottawa has made bad choices ever since 2006, trying to save a buck. We have unsuitable equipment on both lines, trams on Line 1 and regional longer distance trains on Line 2.

I have argued that a downtown loop should have crossed at Chaudière, an emerging dense neighbourhood and used the now lightly used Albert and Slater corridor. The 2006 plan would have built the Albert/Slater portion Historically, most of a downtown loop was tramways, except that portion crossing the Mackenzie King bridge that didn't exist until the end of the streetcar era. Any downtown loop needs to avoid Wellington and Confederation Square to minimize service interruptions.

As it stands, a Gatineau tramway cannot be justified unless public servants go back to the office full-time.

 

[Mind_the_gap]

Has the feasibility of replacing the Spirit's with more standard metro rolling stock once their lifespan ends been discussed here? I imagine the loading gauge of the tunnel is the main constraint.

So what are they going to replace everything with, considering it'll never be high-floor?

[...] As it stands, a Gatineau tramway cannot be justified unless public servants go back to the office full-time.

Now, ain't that the damn truth... Work from home really made people lazy.

Happy Holidays to all and to all a good night.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Has the feasibility of replacing the Spirit's with more standard metro rolling stock once their lifespan ends been discussed here? I imagine the loading gauge of the tunnel is the main constraint.

No, but the tunnel itself is quite large, there's ample room for something like Montreal's MP-10. The underground stations though are a different story. Rebuilding them to accept high floor vehicles would be extremely difficult.

Other LRT vehicles seem far more reliable than the Citadis, so there's probably a better low floor or 70% vehicle we could use