[Prometheus The Supremo]

Roads should go back to the people....

volksstrata?

 

[Whoaccio]

^
shouldn't that be volksstraße?

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

I was going through the 2009-2018 Capital Program for the Toronto Transit Commission, and came across this little tidbit:

Reduction in the Purchase of Buses – The TTC has revised its bus fleet plan in the 2009 to 2018 planning period. The revised bus fleet plan increases the number of buses to be purchased in 2010 from 80 to 120 and in 2011 from 30 to 40. However, the number of buses to be purchased in 2012 has decreased and there are no longer any bus purchases planned after 2014. The total number of buses to be purchased from 2009-2018 has decreased from 715 in the 2008 fleet plan to 410 in the 2009 fleet plan as a result of the conversion of major bus routes along avenues such as Finch, Sheppard and Eglinton to LRV routes that will form the Transit City Plan. In addition, the McNicoll Bus Garage is no longer required.

More likely they plan to overhaul or rebuild existing buses when needed.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Well at that point, the whole fleet will be under 10 years old.

 

[ShonTron]

Boy, do I ever long for a day when every bus will be a damn Orion VII.

Though in 2014, wouldn't the oldest of the Orion VIIs (delivered in 2002) be 12 years old by then?

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Boy, do I ever long for a day when every bus will be a damn Orion VII.

Though in 2014, wouldn't the oldest of the Orion VIIs (delivered in 2002) be 12 years old by then?

By 2014, the buses could be in surplus, so the older ones could go under a rebuild program. By then, there could be other rapid transit expansion plans in the works, ie. DRL, Transit City II.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

With Eglinton and Sheppard East and Finch West being LRTs by then, there will probably be in excess of 100 surplus buses at that point.

 

[DavidH]

For what little it's worth, the Sun says that the TC cars will be an option on the order for the downtown cars:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/04/03/8986266-sun.html

 

[Cast_Member]

For what little it's worth, the Sun says that the TC cars will be an option on the order for the downtown cars:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/04/03/8986266-sun.html

I think Euro style trams would be ideal for downtown routes. Larger models should be use in LRT routes.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Latest (Combino) model trams found to be cracking up

A cracking Combino tram.

From a WAtoday (Australia) article:

Some of Melbourne's newest trams are cracking up, and repairs will force the removal of some seats.

The 59 Combino trams — distinctive three-section and five-section trams that have run across the network since 2002 — have microscopic cracks in their frames.

The cracks pose no risk to safety, but fixing them before the cracks get worse will require the removal of between four and eight seats.

No extra standing room will be created by removing seats because the extra space is needed for boxes housing the trams' suspension.

Public Transport Users Association president Daniel Bowen said the repairs raised questions about whether the trams should have been bought.

"With these trams having so few seats and now having to be taken out of service for repairs, it's beginning to look like taxpayers were sold a dud," he said.

The trams were made in Germany by Siemens, which also made 36 trains introduced to Melbourne in 2002 that have had serious braking problems.

Both the trams and trains were ordered as part of the privatisation of Melbourne's system in 1999.

For the next two years, four Combino trams will be taken off the rails every 10 weeks. Siemens will fix the trams at no cost to the Government.

Siemens, which would not comment on the repairs, has paid compensation to the Government.

An increase in maintenance scheduling by Yarra Trams means that no tram services will be cancelled while the trams are being repaired. Two of the 59 trams have already been fixed and a third is under repair.

Problems with the trams were uncovered in 2002 when European operators removed them from service after fatigue in body panels was discovered.

The fatigue had led to hairline fractures in the joints of the trams' aluminium bodies, which made them vulnerable to collapse in accidents.

An April 2007 briefing note given to Public Transport Minister Lynne Kosky said cracks had been found in five trams. But the cracking problem here was not as serious as in Europe, the briefing note said.

"Melbourne's topography, being largely flat, has protected its trams from the cracking," it said. "Tram track networks in (other) cities have more severe horizontal and vertical curves than in Melbourne."

Siemens, which has given the repair works the internal name the "Combino Sanitisation Program", has spent about 300 million euros ($A548 million) fixing the trams around the world.

After the repairs, the Combinos will have 32 seats on three-section trams and 56 seats on five-section trams. The city's older B-class trams, made in Melbourne, have 76 seats.

Transport Department spokeswoman Anne Sheedy said the work would be carried out at no cost to taxpayers.

Five yellow trams leased from France last year, which run only on the 96 route between East Brunswick and St Kilda, had more than offset the capacity of the Combinos undergoing maintenance, she said.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Any news yet on who is supplying Toronto with new LRTs/Streetcars, way back i thought i had heard early April 2009 for the contract decision.

 

[DSCToronto]

Any news yet on who is supplying Toronto with new LRTs/Streetcars, way back i thought i had heard early April 2009 for the contract decision.

It's supposed to come up at the TTC Meeting on Monday 27th April.

 

[catcher_of_cats]

Let's hope they get it right this time so a manufacturer can actually commence building them before the entire current streetcar fleet is decommissioned.

 

[DavidH]

Let's hope they get it right this time so a manufacturer can actually commence building them before the entire current streetcar fleet is decommissioned.

In principle, "getting it right" was complete several months ago after a more interactive process between the TTC and the manufacturers. All of the technical issues were to have been worked through as part of that process. What we're waiting on now is merely a matter of price, and a final decision of which manufacturer to go with.

 

[waterloowarrior]

GTA COVER STORY
A streetcar now for city of tomorrow
http://www.thestar.com/unassigned/article/620580
Finish line near for two contenders in high stakes race to supply the TTC's wheels for Transit City
Apr 18, 2009 04:30 AM
Be the first to comment on this article...
TESS KALINOWSKI
TRANSPORTATION REPORTER

After years of anticipation, the Toronto Transit Commission will announce later this month whether Bombardier or Siemens Canada has won a record-breaking contract to replace its aging streetcars.

At $1.25 billion to $3 billion, the buy will be the biggest ever by a Canadian city, and among the largest light-rail-vehicle orders in the world.

More than big money is riding on the deal. This contract is all about the two urgent urban concerns of 2009: the jobs of today and the city of tomorrow.

It could prop up the foundering economy of Thunder Bay, where Bombardier has a plant.

Or it could mean 200 new jobs in the similarly struggling Toronto region, where Siemens has pledged to build a plant if it gets the deal.

The TTC believes the light rail vehicles (LRVs) can reform the habits of car-tethered suburbanites and ease the long, depressing commutes of low-income workers living in underserviced areas.

Politicians and planners believe neighbourhoods will be transformed when the LRVs begin operating on an extensive system of light rail lines dubbed Transit City, as well as on the 11 existing streetcar routes.

Whichever supplier is chosen April 27, the 204 new cars – with potentially 364 more to fully outfit Transit City – will be quieter and sleeker than the 248 iconic clunkers that now lumber along Toronto's thoroughfares.

"Customers will find (them) more comfortable than the current fleet," said Stephen Lam, TTC superintendent of light rail engineering, citing "their modernistic and roomy interior design, seating arrangement, panoramic windows, full accessibility and user-friendly features, and air-conditioning."

Now it comes down to who will build them, and where – and whose sinking economy will benefit.

Both Bombardier and Siemens say they offer proven technology and reliable LRVs. The bids are based on Bombardier's Flexity Outlook and Siemens' Combino Plus models. Similar in design features, both are excellent, 100 per cent low-floor cars, Lam says.

But the winning bidder will have to customize its model to Toronto's unique requirements, so TTC engineers have understandably focused on technical aspects. Both makers had to prove their vehicle could handle Toronto's steep hills and uncommonly tight turning points.

The other key requirement: 25 per cent, or about $300 million, of the fleet order has to involve Canadian parts and labour.

That's not much compared with job-protection policies abroad, says John Cartwright, president of the Toronto and York Region Labour Council. The U.S. demands 60 per cent American content.

"We believe the TTC could easily have (a major supplier) providing those streetcars at 50 per cent content," Cartwright said. He said raising the Canadian portion would obviously be easier for Bombardier, "but if Siemens does want to commit to a long-term economic investment in Ontario, then it should be just as favourable to them."

Both have set up plants elsewhere to meet content requirements.

The TTC says it would raise the 25 per cent requirement if it later exercises the option to buy 364 more cars for Transit City. (TTC funding even for the initial order of 204 is not yet in hand, but the province has already pledged to outfit the first two Transit City lines.)

"With the Thunder Bay plant and the parts network we have established, we could certainly entertain higher levels of (Canadian) content," said Bombardier spokesperson David Slack.

Some parts would be Canadian-made but supply lines would remain "multinational," said Slack.

Siemens, which has its Canadian headquarters in Mississauga, says it would have no problem meeting the 25 per cent mark. It has been talking to the province about sites for an assembly plant employing about 200 workers plus engineers.

Its preference is to stay in the GTA. And on that score, Siemens has new statistics on its side: Three-month seasonally adjusted figures in March showed that at 8.8 per cent, the Toronto area's jobless rate has outpaced Thunder Bay's 8.6.

The workforce is here; the client is here, said Mario Peloquin, Siemens' director of mobility.

But the Canadian content rule is more complex than it appears.

"It's a tough number for any company because of the strict method of calculating the 25 per cent – it's 25 per cent of the price to the customer," said Peloquin, who notes there are costs attached to opening a plant. "It sounds low, but if you brought it up to 80 per cent, nobody could achieve it" and still make the LRV affordable, he said.

But even 25 per cent is enough to secure up to 250 jobs for 10 years, according to the CAW, which represents the workers in Thunder Bay.

The spinoff potential is critical, said Thunder Bay Mayor Lynn Peterson. "With a contract that big, it could be up to 800 jobs – that's an enormous boon to the community."

The city of 128,000 has lost 2,000 jobs in the forestry sector alone. "Like anybody else, we're waiting and hoping (Bombardier tenders) are successful," Peterson said.

She's been promoting the bid to anyone who will listen, including Toronto Mayor David Miller. "He knows how important it is to Thunder Bay. He knows what I'm going to say when he sees me coming."

She also knows Miller is bound by the TTC's careful procurement process, which is being scrutinized by fairness monitors to avoid a repeat of the 2006 controversy in which new subway cars were sole-sourced to Bombardier.

And the rivalry goes on. Siemens and Bombardier are both in the running to build an automatic signal system for the subway. That's expected to be announced on the same day as the LRV deal: April 27.