timeo
New Member
Perhaps you missed this:
http://www.thecrosstown.ca/news-med...mobility-hub-update-and-station-design-review
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Perhaps you missed this:
http://www.thecrosstown.ca/news-med...mobility-hub-update-and-station-design-review
ShonTron
Moderator
This is what I would really like to see for the Victoria Park/Eglinton Square stop:
The LRT dips underground just west of Victoria Park, and the stop is in a pit in wedge of Victoria Park, Eglinton and Eglinton Square (which leads into O'Connor). It would then re-emerge on the surface near Pharmacy Avenue to serve it. That section of Eglinton has a number of lights, skipping two of them, especially Victoria Park, should speed operations while being cost-effective.
This is on Tram #26 in Amsterdam, on the newer (opened 2005) IJburg line. This is Reitlandpark, where there are escalators, stairs and elevators is very similar to what I (and others) would like to see.
(h/t to CDL.TO for mentioning this location to check out when I was in Amsterdam.)
The LRT dips underground just west of Victoria Park, and the stop is in a pit in wedge of Victoria Park, Eglinton and Eglinton Square (which leads into O'Connor). It would then re-emerge on the surface near Pharmacy Avenue to serve it. That section of Eglinton has a number of lights, skipping two of them, especially Victoria Park, should speed operations while being cost-effective.
This is on Tram #26 in Amsterdam, on the newer (opened 2005) IJburg line. This is Reitlandpark, where there are escalators, stairs and elevators is very similar to what I (and others) would like to see.
(h/t to CDL.TO for mentioning this location to check out when I was in Amsterdam.)
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Hopkins123
Senior Member
I don't think anyone would be opposed to Transit City if most of it operated in a side-of-road trench, tunneled or elevated design. This is how the Crosstown should operate through Scarborough, perhaps consolidating the Victoria Park and Pharmacy; Lebovic and Warden; and Birchmount and Ionview stations into single stations with 100 metre long platforms spanning the area between those intersections.
Dan416
Senior Member
I was just about to say that too.
If our LRTs were built like that picture above, no one would be crying for subways.
nfitz
Superstar
Sure they would ... what kind of second-rate city has to put up with outdoor platforms ...
ShonTron
Moderator
The IJburg line is in a typical surface ROW on the outer section, and Amsterdam has an extensive street-running tram system as well. That's why this particular example fits so well in the Toronto context.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Solid Snake
Active Member
no they wouldn't. Systems like the London DLR would be widely accepted. People take issue with Eglinton stopping at traffic lights in the east end
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
You must not have heard what Karen Stintz had to say about the Scarborough Subway being outdoors. Something about at-grade transit not being "real" subways.
Of course she doesn't represent everyone, but I wouldn't be surprised if this viewpoint is widely accepted.
Voltz
Senior Member
I've seen on the street news interviews of riders waiting at bus stops on Eglinton East, complaining that they don't know how they will manage to get to work if it snows since they will have to wait at an above ground LRT platform, rather than an underground subway station......
This same rider was getting on at Victoria Park and heading to the Yonge subway, and was just outraged that Ford's all underground plan was no longer going to be built, as if the hand full of intersections between VP and the tunneled section were going to make her trip an absolute nightmare, while not being a drastic improvement over her current bus ride.
So yes, the objections to surface LRT are that irrational.
Solid Snake
Active Member
They should go to Rosedale and Davisville more often
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
+1
I've seen people get into a rage over the idea of having to stand outside in the winter. They wanted underground stations just like downtown and were willing to pay billions of dollars to do it. They're completely irrational.
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Voltz
Senior Member
As I said, these people were already waiting at a surface bus stop, but just couldn't fathom the idea of a surface LRT platform.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Yes. This is exactly how transit money should be spent. Light Rail should be a cheaper form of rapid transit, not oversized streetcars.
I too think that grade-separating and consolidating Eglinton Square station would be very beneficial. The current design will inevitably have horrible transit priority due to the massive pedestrian crossing distances which limit responsiveness of the signal.
Based on City of Toronto standards, the response time would be:
27s pedestrian countdown (32m @ 1.2m/s)
3s amber
3s all-way red
Therefore it could be as long as 33 seconds between when a vehicle is detected and a green is provided. And that's assuming that transit is ensured the next phase, which is not the case on our existing median ROWs, which give a left-turn phase even when there is a transit vehicle waiting.
At 16m/s (58km/h), a vehicle would have to be detected 528 metres in advance of the stop bar in order to be guaranteed a green. The current design will probably give it around 5 metres. So there's a very good chance vehicles will spend a long time sitting around at red lights in this area.
Irrational indeed. How can they assume that heating is dependent on being below ground? Do they live in caves?
This above-ground median transit stop in Markham is heated:
This subway station (as with all subway other subway stations in Toronto) is NOT heated:
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
This arguement coming from someone arguing about "uninformed masses opposing transit expansion because it doesn't affect them", you honestly think people oppose it because of streetlights? no, people oppose it because rob ford said it took away car lanes (which it doesn't) and will clog up the roads (which it won't), and don't bother to look into it. I can say right now, every person I have met that it opposed to LRT has no friggen clue about the details of the plans. I often have to explain that the roads will be widened for it, and where there is no space for widening it will go underground. they often then reverse their opinions, as it actually makes sense.
The hate for the Scarborough LRT is also the ultimate proof against this. Ford claimed it blocked traffic and would be slow (surprise surprise, it wouldn't!!!) and even though it would act exactly like an above ground subway, everyone wanted it gone because it is that god-foresaken LRT technology that must be evil because Ford said so! there were many legitimate reasons to support the subway alternative, but the "masses" didn't support the subway for those reasons. people don't have in depth levels of understanding of transit planning, and fords completely false sound bites are what they believe as truth and rally behind.
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