[thommyjo]

tbh, i don't really care about "increase/decrease" at this point. We have to find an acceptable baseline.

We could have a "50% DROP IN INCIDENTS!" WOW! And it's still 4x more our 2019 numbers (reported ones). So we can't just be aiming for decreases, we have to establish an acceptable threshold for general safety & public perception.

Your average LRT rider should take the train every day and see ZERO drug use, gang activity, or violence. The occasional incident should be a rarity. I've been in stations only 4 times this year so far, and every time saw multiple instances of drug use and sketchy behaviour by those brandishing gang clothing/tattoos. I ride the skytrain 2-4x most months and have only seen 1 instance of drug use in a station this year. What gives??

 

[thommyjo]

What I don't like about stats like this is that it doesn't account for how many people might experience an issue. If this is car crashes per trip taken, great (those are isolated per user). But incidents vs ridership doesn't matter cause if 20 people are on a platform and see an assault, vs 60 people on a platform seeing an assault, all those people are still impacted negatively.

This stat would matter if more riders = more issues. But we obviously know that just a few hundred people cause the vast majority of major crime/violence and disorder DT. Actual LRT riders aren't the cause of disorder. So of course more riders will drop this stat....it also just means more people are seeing these issues. I wouldn't celebrate it like many councillors have.

 

[David A]

Yes the worst thing is when statistics are used by politicians or those who work for them to try convince us they are doing a good job, when we can see they are not.

It does not help their credibility and only convinces people they do not understand the seriousness of the problem or take it seriously enough.

 

[yeggator]

Uhh no thanks! Peace officers would work, let's not cosplay as a military junta.

It’s pretty common around Italy. Either the army or highly militarized police (Carabinieri). No one seems to mind.

 

[Habibfazil]

What I don't like about stats like this is that it doesn't account for how many people might experience an issue. If this is car crashes per trip taken, great (those are isolated per user). But incidents vs ridership doesn't matter cause if 20 people are on a platform and see an assault, vs 60 people on a platform seeing an assault, all those people are still impacted negatively.

This stat would matter if more riders = more issues. But we obviously know that just a few hundred people cause the vast majority of major crime/violence and disorder DT. Actual LRT riders aren't the cause of disorder. So of course more riders will drop this stat....it also just means more people are seeing these issues. I wouldn't celebrate it like many councillors have.

View attachment 590082

and that total of only 6,413 is still 6,413 too many. How many riders and potential riders are being scared off?

Do better!

 

[Kosy123]

Violent crime down 21% in Edmonton transit centres, LRT stations: police stats | CityNews Edmonton

Police and police commissioners in Edmonton are celebrating a significant drop in violence at LRT stations and transit centres.

edmonton.citynews.ca

 

[David A]

It will take time for perceptions to change, especially from people who seldom use transit, but hopefully they eventually will if things continue to improve.

 

[Habibfazil]

It will take time for perceptions to change, especially from people who seldom use transit, but hopefully they eventually will if things continue to improve.

Perceptions are reality, and there still are issues along the line, had a good run of all 3 legs yesterday, only saw 2 uniformed officers out and about, no fare checking, and a wee bit fewer visible issues.

One thing about the 6,413 "incidents", how many are not reported, or are over by the time the popo arrives?

People being scared off and the resultant loss in revenues are not going to be solved by gates, I have to agree with the union on that point...

 

[David A]

The gates are to be there to address perceptions and improve safety as well as revenue loss. Perceptions can and do change based on reality changing, but it does take time.

 

[TAS]

The gates are to be there to address perceptions and improve safety as well as revenue loss. Perceptions can and do change based on reality changing, but it does take time.

Doesn't appear council will be moving forward on fare gate pilot - even one of its strongest proponents, Tim Cartmell, appears to be cooling on the idea after hearing from transit groups and city administration report that the cost may not justify it and other options may be better.

Edmonton eyes two-year LRT fare gates pilot for Churchill and Belvedere stations

Edmonton city council is considering a pilot for fare gates at Churchill and Belvedere LRT stations with attendants for two years.

edmontonjournal.com

 

[Barnaby]

I think that is unfortunate considering the success that Vancouver has has with their fare gates. If there is no fare gates, I believe extreme fare checks should be done.

 

[Habibfazil]

I think that is unfortunate considering the success that Vancouver has has with their fare gates. If there is no fare gates, I believe extreme fare checks should be done.

they probably lose more revenue with people being too scared to ride or just not feeling the value in an unpleasant ride, how many have we lost already?

 

[David A]

Doesn't appear council will be moving forward on fare gate pilot - even one of its strongest proponents, Tim Cartmell, appears to be cooling on the idea after hearing from transit groups and city administration report that the cost may not justify it and other options may be better.

Edmonton eyes two-year LRT fare gates pilot for Churchill and Belvedere stations

Edmonton city council is considering a pilot for fare gates at Churchill and Belvedere LRT stations with attendants for two years.

edmontonjournal.com

A big city understands these problems need to be addressed for many reasons. Maybe our council is stuck in a small town mentality.

I had hopes for Cartmell, but over the last year or two he has been disappointing. His only strength, if you can call it that,is he will likely be a UCP shill.

 

[Offworld]

Doesn't appear council will be moving forward on fare gate pilot - even one of its strongest proponents, Tim Cartmell, appears to be cooling on the idea after hearing from transit groups and city administration report that the cost may not justify it and other options may be better.

Edmonton eyes two-year LRT fare gates pilot for Churchill and Belvedere stations

Edmonton city council is considering a pilot for fare gates at Churchill and Belvedere LRT stations with attendants for two years.

edmontonjournal.com

"... other options may be better". It would be interesting to hear what the City thinks is better, and on what basis is something considered better than others. What are the benchmarks?

 

[Barnaby]

Peace officers can easily walk around with validators and verify that riders have paid. A day like today would be GREAT for this as you will absolutely have people taking the train to the hockey game and stealing rides. I'd prefer if all events at Rogers and Commonwealth included the fare to avoid this theft.

This isn't a concept that's new, or overbearing. This is exactly how it works in Frankfurt. Broken windows theory is real, and it's not only "sketchy" people that contribute to disorder.

On that note. I've noticed DT and transit to be exceptionally clean in the last month compared to usual. Well done to the City.