[investor]

4. Full.

Your response is nonsensical. Full? I suppose you are implying that the Krazy Kazahs have theoretically 'sold out' (according to them) the building at break-neck pricing. It's difficult to compare such a phenomenon to building that actually exists and is actually deemed a success from virtually every observer. Great Gulf succeeded in creating both a livable structure and a desirable public space on what was a very underachieving yet significant corner by virtue of acting a the eastern gateway to yorkville. In contrast we see an absurdly overambitious project at another important intersection that strives to compete with many of the most valuable buildings in the city yet existing at a location that does not rise to the occasion.

Urbandream, I assume that you're being sarcastic in your characterization of the bloor to college strip. As I own property in that corridor I would be surprised to the upside were your comments accurate and sincere but knowing the challenges posed by that particularly urban and gritty stretch I can only conclude that you are indeed only utilitzing your comedic license.

 

[urbandreamer]

You know what's funny Investor but I think we've met before in person! Did you ever own property on Queen St West?

I am being serious: As a futurist I believe Yonge St within 15 years will be the "it" place to hang out for the upper middle class. Nuts am I? so be it!

 

[MisterF]

Your response is nonsensical. Full? I suppose you are implying that the Krazy Kazahs have theoretically 'sold out' (according to them) the building at break-neck pricing. It's difficult to compare such a phenomenon to building that actually exists and is actually deemed a success from virtually every observer. Great Gulf succeeded in creating both a livable structure and a desirable public space on what was a very underachieving yet significant corner by virtue of acting a the eastern gateway to yorkville. In contrast we see an absurdly overambitious project at another important intersection that strives to compete with many of the most valuable buildings in the city yet existing at a location that does not rise to the occasion.

lol...you completely missed my point. Allow me to try again...

Out of curiosity, why would you or anyone perceive this building to be superior to 18 Yorkville which is:

Full.


Sensical enough for you?

 

[investor]

You know what's funny Investor but I think we've met before in person! Did you ever own property on Queen St West?

I am being serious: As a futurist I believe Yonge St within 15 years will be the "it" place to hang out for the upper middle class. Nuts am I? so be it!

You, as all, are entitled to your entitled with which I respectfully disagree. I've lived (and owned property) in this city long enough to know how difficult it will be to clean up Yonge Street in a manner that has the sort of impact that you are describing. Ironically, I believe that a 18-yorkville-esque building would be far superior to what is being ridiculously proposed and would ultimately contribute to the vibrancy that you are envisioning.

By the way, I believed in the resurgence of Parkdale for many, many, years and can completely understand the appeal of the Drake Hotel. It makes total sense as it was an artistic enclave, similar to SOHO in the 80s and 90s, that was bound to gentrify with time and population density putting pressure on the core. The big appeal of the area frankly was the more attractive entry point for housing, until recently. Let's see whether the Dufferin bridge psychological barrier can be broken and if the trend moves all the way over to Roncy before the close of the decade.

 

[investor]

lol...you completely missed my point. Allow me to try again...


Full.


Sensical enough for you?

My apologies F. I did misread your post. Excuse my ignorance. I'm slightly exacerbated from all the tireless boosterism for this project that I've misdirected my angst.

I get it and concur wholeheartedly!

 

[allabootmatt]

By the way, I believed in the resurgence of Parkdale for many, many, years and can completely understand the appeal of the Drake Hotel. It makes total sense as it was an artistic enclave, similar to SOHO in the 80s and 90s, that was bound to gentrify with time and population density putting pressure on the core. The big appeal of the area frankly was the more attractive entry point for housing, until recently. Let's see whether the Dufferin bridge psychological barrier can be broken and if the trend moves all the way over to Roncy before the close of the decade.

Slightly OT, but when last in TO I walked to the end of Queen and got the impression that if and when it more thoroughly gentrifies W of Dufferin it will be because of spillover from Roncesvalles south and east, rather than from Draketown west. Or maybe both?

As for 1BE...I'll be the first to admit having misgivings about this project and developer, but I take a sort of if-the-market-will-bear-it attitude. If people are willing to pay the prices being charged, presumably most of them have done some sort of due diligence. I just don't buy the chicken little argument that, somehow, everyone but a lone voice on an internet forum is wrong, misguided, and can't see through a scam. Real people are putting down real money, and they're not all grannies being taken in by some Ponzi scheme. Only time will tell, of course, but I suspect things will work out fine.

 

[MisterF]

My apologies F. I did misread your post. Excuse my ignorance. I'm slightly exacerbated from all the tireless boosterism for this project that I've misdirected my angst.

I get it and concur wholeheartedly!

Basically my point was that with buildings like 18 Yorkville being full so there's demand for more and bigger high end buildings. Yonge and Bloor is perfect for this - nearby Yonge may be a little seedy, but Bloor is all about the money.

 

[Jayomatic]

I have to agree with Investor on this one. I think the majority of people buying into this development don't know what they are doing. Just because someone throws 800k at a condo doesn't mean they are smart people. I'd say that 75% or more of the buyers in this condo are investors who are stupid enough to think that this condo location will demand a premium of double the surrounding condo developments. It's not like this condo is being built on a place like central park or some extraordinary feature of the city.

 

[caltrane74]

While not set on an awesome location like Central Park; Bloor St would probably demand a premium due to it's prominance as our most high end shopping street, akin to something like "5th Ave" in New York or "Rodeo Dr" in Los Angeles.

When the block is redeveloped and more premium brands locate further east, the demand for property in the area will likely increase along with the prices.

 

[investor]

Basically my point was that with buildings like 18 Yorkville being full so there's demand for more and bigger high end buildings. Yonge and Bloor is perfect for this - nearby Yonge may be a little seedy, but Bloor is all about the money.

There are 2 units for sale at 18 yorkville currently. One is asking $650 per square foot and has been on the market for 3 weeks and the other for 42 days at the same price per square foot.

I'd appreciate hearing arguments why Yonge & Bloor is a superior location to Yorkville Avenue and why a sketched make believe building is more desirable than a virtually brand one.

 

[investor]

While not set on an awesome location like Central Park; Bloor St would probably demand a premium due to it's prominance as our most high end shopping street, akin to something like "5th Ave" in New York or "Rodeo Dr" in Los Angeles.

Yonge and Bloor is a great location. It is however not nearly as desirable (objectively) as Yonge & Yorkville, Bloor & Cumberland, Avenue & Bloor, Bay & Yorkville, etc. There must be half a dozen or more buildings in the vicinity that are objectivity in superior locations with existing suites that are worth 25%-50% less than this one. Look at the Regency- how many years have they been building that project and still they can't sell out. It is a better location from an objective perspective and it appears to have high end finishes.

Again, the equivalent of Minto Midtown would be ideal for this location. Perhaps Minto will rescue this project once it craters.

 

[caltrane74]

Yonge and Bloor is a great location. It is however not nearly as desirable (objectively) as Yonge & Yorkville, Bloor & Cumberland, Avenue & Bloor, Bay & Yorkville, etc. There must be half a dozen or more buildings in the vicinity that are objectivity in superior locations with existing suites that are worth 25%-50% less than this one. Look at the Regency- how many years have they been building that project and still they can't sell out. It is a better location from an objective perspective and it appears to have high end finishes.

Again, the equivalent of Minto Midtown would be ideal for this location. Perhaps Minto will rescue this project once it craters.

You should have quoted my entire post. The premium pricing being built into the pre-sales inventory may have more to do with "what's to come" and less to do with "what's there right now"

BTW: Regency Yorkville doesn't go down to good with the members on this forum for some reason. Myself personally, I don't have any problems with it.

 

[urbandreamer]

While 18 Yorkville is surely in the top 5 best looking highrises in Toronto there are some negatives associated with the building (from my POV at any rate.)

1. Firehall is noisy.
2. 4 Seasons, Lotus, and more to come destroying views.
3. view of ugly bums hanging around TRL.
4. cold wind tunnel of a walk to subway stn.
5. It's stale compared to 1 Bloor East--as an investor in stocks it's easy to forget yesterday's news, yesterday's hot condo.... the way the world spins, eh?

1 Bloor is kinda like that crap in Miss city centre (Daniels Chicago sold out--is $450/sft justified for a view there of huge parking lot, slabs and highways?): buzz generates interest.

It's not worth $1000/sq ft though. Kinda like buying a tsx resource stock at the top of a run--some people are born suckers

 

[investor]

You should have quoted my entire post. The premium pricing being built into the pre-sales inventory may have more to do with "what's to come" and less to do with "what's there right now"

BTW: Regency Yorkville doesn't go down to good with the members on this forum for some reason. Myself personally, I don't have any problems with it.

Those of us who have been in this business for decades can appreciate how slow the pace of change can be, notwithstanding the big expensive projects that are coming to the area. Changing the streetscape of Yonge and Bloor will take more than an investor-bloated condo project. It will take years (decades perhaps?) of continued positive net migration and economic prosperity for the area to undergo the massive shift required to bring it to the level of retailing seen just a couple blocks west.

 

[investor]

It's not worth $1000/sq ft though. Kinda like buying a tsx resource stock at the top of a run--some people just are born suckers

My point precisely. If sales were at $500/sq. ft. we wouldn't be having this conservation.