[Jayomatic]

Just because its tall doesn't mean it will be a landmark. I'm sure there will be taller and better condos eventually. Plus architectually speaking, it doesn't come close to something like the Spire in Chicago or even Eureka Tower in Adelaide. It's simply a boxy tall condo. If i wanted to live in something landmark, i'd rather invest my money in the L tower.

 

[caltrane74]

Your Hilarious 3D!!

Just because its tall doesn't mean it will be a landmark. I'm sure there will be taller and better condos eventually. Plus architectually speaking, it doesn't come close to something like the Spire in Chicago or even Eureka Tower in Adelaide. It's simply a boxy tall condo. If i wanted to live in something landmark, i'd rather invest my money in the L tower.

Eureka is the biggest crap tower of all time. - None the less it's a landmark because its so damn tall.

 

[Jayomatic]

I think so many of us aren't really against the project in general but it sets a false precident in terms of the pricing of future units. What seems to be happening around the city is that 1 condo launches at price x. Then the next condo to be launched is priced at x + 5% or so. So as the developer who started the condo at price x inflates the price affecting all the condos that come after. Then in about 4 years or so, these condominiums come to market and everyone tries to flip. With nobody wanting to purchase the units at those inflated prices, the prices come down.

What angers me is that people who are looking to purchase new condos for living in ( new or young purchasers ) end up getting priced out of the market for a few years.

The prices Bazis has set will only cause the correction to come sooner than later if they had priced the property according to its true value.

 

[investor]

The prices Bazis has set will only cause the correction to come sooner than later if they had priced the property according to its true value.

Bingo. Hence my comments and paternalistic attitude towards the orderly and stable behavior of the market. Yes, market forces dictate prices, I agree, but bullsh*t tactics such as the kind utilized by these goofballs will do exactly what Jay suggests and will contribute to a climate of instability, erratic prices, and ultimately significant hardship for many.

Not to sing their praises too much, but look at the success of Minto's project and the impact it is going to have on the area. They would never pull this kind of crap because they value their rep in the community.

 

[caltrane74]

You guys seem to forget the reason Bazis is able to pull these tactics off on the public, is because the public wants to buy in this building.

There was never this kind of frenzy for Trump; I wonder why?

 

[investor]

You guys seem to forget the reason Bazis is able to pull these tactics off on the public, is because the public wants to buy in this building.

There was never this kind of frenzy for Trump; I wonder why?

Actually Cal there was this EXACT kind of frenzy at the launch party. They brought in Donald Trump Jr. and the winner from the Apprentice show. The event was buzzing with agents. They spent a FORTUNE and purportedly sold dozens of units that week.

Look how that turned out...

 

[Conrad Black]

Caltrane you seem to think only very rich people can afford a $500,000 condo. That's just not the case. There's plenty of people in this town that could easily come up with $125,000 over a year for the down-payment. And they no doubt can raise the mortgage amount. There's lots of semi-wealthy that can get greedy when they see what's going on. However if they are not pros they can and will get burned. Look at how many doctors, lawyers got burned by Stinson at Sapphire. Many put hundreds of thousands of dollars up on the basis that they would double their money once the building was done. Instead they lost 100% of their money.

I think this building is attracting just those people. My gut is telling me many plan to flip as soon as registered which means they don't actually have to try and rent it thus bypassing the issue of rent not covering the carrying costs. They are in for a rude awakening as this building is not in the same league as Ritz, Trump or 4 Seasons.

 

[Redroom Studios]

I think we need to create a new term for this.... its not real estate, more like soft estate. For me its all imaginary until the building is an actuality. Even construction of a stump is not proof that we will get a completed building! (as we all know in this part of the world)

 

[caltrane74]

Conrad Black: No you read me wrong, I was saying 500k for 500 sq feet. Most people that are not rich and spending 500k on a home would probably want at least twice as much sq footage. ( at least for a condo home)

 

[Conrad Black]

I'm talking about people that are well off or even rich investing/speculating in a project like this with no intention of moving in. Again the Stinson example where professionals with money, but with no real estate skills, got taken to the cleaners because of the hype or just plain greed. Hell I can double my money in 5 years. I think the same sort of thinking is going on with 1 Bloor.

 

[caltrane74]

I'm talking about people that are well off or even rich investing/speculating in a project like this with no intention of moving in. Again the Stinson example where professionals with money, but with no real estate skills, got taken to the cleaners because of the hype or just plain greed. Hell I can double my money in 5 years. I think the same sort of thinking is going on with 1 Bloor.

oh ok. You were talking about the speculators. Point taken.

If these guys loose their money, I'm having a party!!

 

[investor]

oh ok. You were talking about the speculators. Point taken.

If these guys loose their money, I'm having a party!!

CB and Cal, you're both quite correct. This is the well-paid professionals crowd that is bandwagoning it here big time. I advised any one who listened not to trust Stinson based on his track record and my advice proved correct. I take the same position here.

 

[Mongo]

I personally have no problem with speculators who have more money than brains, losing some of that money in order for 1BE to be built. To me, that would be a win-win situation, with part of the idiots' money going to construction workers and their families (along with other mid-level people), who can use the money more than the speculators, plus an impressive building being added to the TO skyline.

It would become a problem if the overheated speculation infects the "regular" housing market, driving up housing prices for ordinary non-speculators.

At the present time, I see no evidence that this speculative bubble extends beyond 1BE and maybe a few other buildings, nor do I think it will in the future.

Bill

 

[3Dementia]

I doubt that the builders in Toronto (love 'em or hate 'em) will rush to the edge of the cliff and jump off screaming "I'm a lemming! I'm gonna peel off a piece of vinyl and show dem buyers what it really costs to live here".

There is the slight chance that Bazis has not created lemonade from its lemmings, but the demolition/site prep begins in January so there you r.

 

[asiancolossus]

I do find this back and forth debate very interesting. I have to say both the enthusiasts and the pessimists both have very valid points, both about Bazis as well as the true valuation of Yonge and Bloor location. But we can't just label those who bought at 1000 dollars "idiots" just because it is more expensive than their peers. Valuation is incredibly subjective and I would hazard a guess that 5 years ago, the same thing was said about "idiots" who bought at 500 dollars a square foot. Charting uncharted territory is what we are doing now. Whether Bazis is a scam artist will be revealed with time. I don't know if they are or they aren't. But it seems that pessimists are incredibly sure they are running the scam of the century. Isn't there a possibility this might actually fly? We have NO idea of how many people are investors vs speculators. We are speculating on the speculators, if most of them are speculators, yes, they might be in for a bumpy ride...

As for me, I'm just enjoying the debate, not taking this too seriously. In fact, I'd rather be on the side of cautious optimism, if this flies, it does have the potential to change the entire area for the better, better than what we have now. Harvey's or vein stripping anyone?