[TheTigerMaster]

John Tory refuses to answer questions on his stance on Pride:
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news...ike_rob_ford_refuses_to_talk_to_reporter.html

I think cowardly is an appropriate word to describe this man.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think cowardly is an appropriate word to describe this man.

He talks too much.

 

[nfitz]

First he's racist because he supported Ford at some point, although now it's incidental after Chow showed him support as well and our darling Chow couldn't be racist

What are you talking about? John Tory endorsed Rob Ford in the last election and wrote him a cheque for $1,000 - it's in the election financing records for the city.

When did Chow support Ford???

This is the most bizarre claim I've seen here!

but then you go on to label him taking an anti-gay position when the subject is a specific political group in the parade. Having nothing to do with being anti-gay in the slightest.

He clearly stated that he would pull funding from Pride, over an issue that has been made very clear by the experts isn't something that is any of the city's business. This is highly prejudicical. It's quite clear that those that are still trying to get Pride's funding withdrawn on this issue, are anti-gay. I'm really shocked and very disappointed that John Tory would join this anti-gay crusade. It's not acceptable, if it isn't prejudice, it's complete ignorance. And I neither want a prejudiced or ignorant person leading this city.

 

[nfitz]

Nfitz, prove that John Tory is homophobic and racist.

Where did I say he was racist? Where did I say he was homophobic? You are twisting my words.

I said he was a racist supporter. There's no question that Rob Ford is a racist. And John Tory supported and endorsed him. He supported a racist.

I also said his comments today were prejudiced. Did I say he was homophobic?

I want objective, indisputable proof.

Proof of what ... you don't even seem to understand what I said.

No one ever challenges your asinine claims hard enough.

I don't see any need to be rude here.

Things aren't facts because you say they are. Your opinions aren't universally held.

What facts have I stated are wrong? Do you believe Rob Ford isn't a racist? Do you believe that John Tory didn't write him a $1,000 cheque in the last election?

 

[picard102]

I'm really shocked and very disappointed that John Tory would join this anti-gay crusade

I'm shocked that anyone would read the situation like that. Unless of course they already had an axe to grind.

 

[JGHali]

I don't think Tory is racist or homophobic. He's just a panderer who has a long record of bad to non-existent political judgement. He can't stick to a decision. His transit plan is a poorly-thought-out mess that simply apes existing provincial plans. And he's a flip-flopper even on said plans. Remember when his campaign staged the ill-fated Twister game intimating that Chow didn't adequately support the DRL? Well, I do!

He probably wouldn't make a terrible mayor, but I expect he'd simply twist in whatever way Council preferred on a given day. He would not be an effective leader.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

No. Based on Tory's track record I'd be very heistant to say that Tory "probably won't be a terrible mayor". Remember that this is is a guy with a a greater number of notable failures in his political and professional life than he has successes. I have no idea why people are so quick to put faith in a man who has, at best, a mediocre track record.

 

[JGHali]

Perhaps better to say while he wouldn't be Ford-ian terrible, he would nonetheless be thoroughly mediocre and possibly unintentionally embarrassing. A June Rowlands for a new century.

 

[Watts]

Where did I say he was racist? Where did I say he was homophobic? You are twisting my words.

I said he was a racist supporter. There's no question that Rob Ford is a racist. And John Tory supported and endorsed him. He supported a racist.

I also said his comments today were prejudiced. Did I say he was homophobic?

Proof of what ... you don't even seem to understand what I said.

I don't see any need to be rude here.

What facts have I stated are wrong? Do you believe Rob Ford isn't a racist? Do you believe that John Tory didn't write him a $1,000 cheque in the last election?

The racist comment was my mistake. However, when you refer to John Tory as a bigot (re the QAIA/Pride issue, etc.) aren't you insinuating that he is a homophobe? And if not, then I still want proof that he a bigot. You don't get to throw around offensive terms without backing your views up with hard proof; otherwise you're just a bully.

Calling your empty claims "asinine" isn't rude. It's objectively true. It is foolish to call people offensive names when you can't back up what you're claiming with facts. Everyone here knows that you have an obsession with calling people bigots whenever their social views don't correlate with yours. John Tory has attended Pride in the past for goodness sakes. Doesn't that prove that he isn't a bigot (based on your definition of the word)? He's shown his support. One can argue that his wanting to pull funding for the parade isn't a wise decision, but it hardly makes him a bigot. There is no evidence to suggest that this stance was based on anything sexual, but was entirely a politically motivated decision.

Your rationale can be summed up like this:

All those that are pro life are misogynistic.

All those that support out troops don't care about all the innocent children and babies that are killed in war.

It's absurd. Your favourite snack must be the black and white cookie. You have absolutely no ability to deduce information.

 

[nfitz]

I'm shocked that anyone would read the situation like that.

What other way is their to read it. Well there's one, I suppose - John Tory is extremely ignorant, and doesn't understand the issue. Either way, we don't need want someone so ignorant in power.

 

[nfitz]

The racist comment was my mistake. However, when you refer to John Tory as a bigot (re the QAIA/Pride issue, etc.) aren't you insinuating that he is a homophobe?

I don't think he fears/hates gays. But I don't think he sees them as equals. Why is he not concerned about other hate groups that march in city parades, such as Roman Catholic organizations and the Salvation Army?

And if not, then I still want proof that he a bigot.

Are you not paying attention? He just promised to pull Pride funding over a wedge-issue pushed by a group of anti-gay bigots. I suppose it's possible that he's not actually bigoted, and is simply a gullible and ignorant fool. Either way I'm not impressed.

Though remember he has a history of supporting bigotry. Rob Ford is well known for his anti-gay bigoted views. And John Tory supported him. Dittor for Randy Hillier. If you support a bigot, then surely you are a bigot.

TCalling your empty claims "asinine" isn't rude/

Perhaps not - but trying to hide the truth of John Tory's years of supporting bigots does seem rather odd to me. Why are people afraid to discuss this?

Your rationale can be summed up like this:

All those that are pro life are misogynistic.

Where have I said this? Your twisting my words.

If one supports a bigot, one is a bigot. If one support a racist, one is a racist. John Tory has done both - and on multiple occasions. Now he suddenly and unnecessarily reopens an old issue that was resolved, siding with some very prejudiced people.

At what point do we stop giving John Tory a free pass?

 

[WislaHD]

He probably wouldn't make a terrible mayor, but I expect he'd simply twist in whatever way Council preferred on a given day. He would not be an effective leader.

No. Based on Tory's track record I'd be very heistant to say that Tory "probably won't be a terrible mayor". Remember that this is is a guy with a a greater number of notable failures in his political and professional life than he has successes. I have no idea why people are so quick to put faith in a man who has, at best, a mediocre track record.

The mayor after all doesn't really do much. A great mayor like Miller didn't put Toronto into greatness, and a horrid mayor like Ford didn't destroy the city. If Tory is a weak mayor that lets council walk all over him, that really isn't the worst case scenario in my eyes. I'm expecting we will have a solid council this term.

 

[nfitz]

The mayor after all doesn't really do much. A great mayor like Miller didn't put Toronto into greatness, and a horrid mayor like Ford didn't destroy the city. If Tory is a weak mayor that lets council walk all over him, that really isn't the worst case scenario in my eyes. I'm expecting we will have a solid council this term.

Oh, he'd be light years ahead of any of the Fords. I expect he'd simply do what staff told him to do, and make some inspiring speeches. But he won't tackle some of the major issues - such as the police budget. Or do what Miller did, and take on the unions looking for concessions. I'd expect Chow to shake things up a lot more. Would that be best for the city? Hard to tell.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

John Tory has attended Pride in the past for goodness sakes. Doesn't that prove that he isn't a bigot (based on your definition of the word)?

Attending the pride parade is hardly "proof" that someone isn't an anti-gay bigot. It's very, very easy for a bigoted politician to attend pride and put on a good show. His attendance is meaningless.

For the record, no, I do not believe that John Tory is at all anti-gay

One can argue that his wanting to pull funding for the parade isn't a wise decision, but it hardly makes him a bigot. There is no evidence to suggest that this stance was based on anything sexual, but was entirely a politically motivated decision.

Quite frankly it disgusts me that John Tory is willing to play politics with LGBT issues. And it disgusts me even more that the man now refuses to answer media questioning regarding the issue; so cowardly that he won't defend his own position. It demonstrates to me that the man is of poor moral character.

 

[Watts]

I don't think he fears/hates gays. But I don't think he sees them as equals. Why is he not concerned about other hate groups that march in city parades, such as Roman Catholic organizations and the Salvation Army?

Are you not paying attention? He just promised to pull Pride funding over a wedge-issue pushed by a group of anti-gay bigots. I suppose it's possible that he's not actually bigoted, and is simply a gullible and ignorant fool. Either way I'm not impressed.

Though remember he has a history of supporting bigotry. Rob Ford is well known for his anti-gay bigoted views. And John Tory supported him. Dittor for Randy Hillier. If you support a bigot, then surely you are a bigot.

Perhaps not - but trying to hide the truth of John Tory's years of supporting bigots does seem rather odd to me. Why are people afraid to discuss this?

Where have I said this? Your twisting my words.

If one supports a bigot, one is a bigot. If one support a racist, one is a racist. John Tory has done both - and on multiple occasions. Now he suddenly and unnecessarily reopens an old issue that was resolved, siding with some very prejudiced people.

At what point do we stop giving John Tory a free pass?

Personally, I'm not sure why one would ever think why one who hates gays is homophobic (fears gays). I've never seen the link. But no, I'm not convinced that he fears gays.

What a disingenuous answer. Don't try to play cute with word play. Why aren't you taking the question seriously? That is not a real answer.

Are you not paying attention? He just promised to pull Pride funding over a wedge-issue pushed by a group of anti-gay bigots. I suppose it's possible that he's not actually bigoted, and is simply a gullible and ignorant fool. Either way I'm not impressed.

Yes, I am paying attention. I mentioned that perhaps it wasn't a wise decision on his part. Oh, so now you're backtracking on the bigot claim. Not so easy to call people names when you're challenged, eh? You're not impressed with his decision; fair enough.

Though remember he has a history of supporting bigotry. Rob Ford is well known for his anti-gay bigoted views. And John Tory supported him. Dittor for Randy Hillier. If you support a bigot, then surely you are a bigot.

So because he supported Rob Ford in the past, he must have also supported all of Rob's social views too? Geez, you're so simpleminded. Maybe he supported Rob's fiscal agenda; nah, he must hate all gay people? Brother. So anyone that liked Hitler's artwork or admired his passion for architecture must have been a bigot because he killed millions of people? One can support certain aspects of another's character without affirming every personal trait, belief they hold. Ted Bundy was a savage murderer, but I thought he was an interesting and eloquent speaker. That doesn't mean I condone what he did to all those girls. Expand your mind, man. You're vision of other people is so narrow.

Perhaps not - but trying to hide the truth of John Tory's years of supporting bigots does seem rather odd to me. Why are people afraid to discuss this?

Stop throwing the word 'bigot' around so much. It means nothing when you use it on a regular basis. You're the most extreme thinker I've ever encountered. It must be exhausting to be so cynical of others. People aren't afraid to discuss this; they just don't take your claims seriously because they're so monotonous and lacking in that important thing called proof.

Where have I said this? Your twisting my words. Why are you trying to white-wash racism and bigotry? There's no defence for this. If you support a bigot, you are a bigot. If you support a racist, you are a racist. John Tory has done both - and on multiple occasions.

Did you see any quotations? The last part was meant to exemplify how black and white your thinking is; they weren't actual words you said. I'm not trying to whitewash anything. Read more carefully. Honestly, how dense can you get? I think I made my point clear with my Hitler and Ted Bundy examples above. If one supports someone specifically for unquestionably racist beliefs, then yes, that would make one racist. However, there are many aspects to everyone's character. I can detest one's racism, but support other beliefs that they hold. And with the whole Ford racist comment thing -- I don't think he is actually racist -- he's just an idiot and got caught on tape saying some very stupid, thoughtless things. Were he truly racist, how could he stand being the presence of Michael Thompson, for example, at City Hall? How did he manage to look so happy when he was at Caribana? No racist could fake it that well; and why would they care to pretend?