[Watts]

Lmao are you okay? You sound like a nut job. John Tory is NOT some bible thumping moron. Just because back in 2007 he claimed that Christian schools should be able to explore creationism in their religion classes does not mean he's some redneck moron. He's actually a progressive guy. Do you even know what you are talking about? Jeeze some of you guys in here are actually not informed at all.

Don't lump all Christians together. That's just as ignorant as Christians that generalize gay people. Was C.S. Lewis a moron? He was a Christian. So was Charles Darwin. Pretty clever guys, no? You and Freshcutgrass seem to think that Christians are like Westboro Baptist Church types. Don't call someone a nut job when you are making an all encompassing generalization about a huge amount of people. "Jeeze some of you guys in here are actually not informed at all." You're neither informed. Who says all Christians are rednecks? It's troubling how easily people buy this propaganda. You've been conditioned to believe this through media bias, Hollywood, authors, professors, music, etc.

And re Harper -- if he is a homophobe, then why did he allow John Baird, Jason Kenney and Nigel Wright in his caucus? Aren't they all gay men?

f John Tory isn't a racist supporter then he's extremely ignorant and an extremely poor judge of character. Either way, clearly he's not fit to be mayor.
!

And there you go again. You were adamant that John Tory was a racist, now you're, again, reverting to 'maybe' because you're being challenged harder. So which is it? You can't seem to make up your mind. One minute he is a racist, the next you're not sure.

"The article and quote was provided above. See "Tory ignites creationism debate" at www.thestar.com/news/politics/2007/09/06/tory_ignites_creationism_debate.html where Tory was quoted as saying "It's still called the theory of evolution". He literally dissed evolution as only being a theory!"

That's because it is a theory.

 

[Roy G Biv]

Every discussion that nfitz participates in degenerates into the same repetitive drivel that oozes on for pages and pages. Those who respond are just as complicit in thread after thread turning into a stream of diarrhea.

Everyone try to look forward and move on.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

"The article and quote was provided above. See "Tory ignites creationism debate" at www.thestar.com/news/politics/2007/09/06/tory_ignites_creationism_debate.html where Tory was quoted as saying "It's still called the theory of evolution". He literally dissed evolution as only being a theory!"

That's because it is a theory.

Problem here is that calling it "merely a theory" is insinuating that evolution is a hypothesis, rather than a scientific theory.

 

[Watts]

Problem here is that calling it "merely a theory" is insinuating that evolution is a hypothesis, rather than a scientific theory.

Evolution isn't definitive proof of where we came from. Science isn't omnipotent.

 

[jaycola]

And yet he's been talking of pulling funding for Pride because of a group that attends the parade. That's not support. That's bigotry.
And yet he jumped onto a long-since resolved anti-gay wedge issues being pushed by some very anti-gay people.

I believe Tory, in his comments regarding QAIA and Pride funding was reacting to a policy statement issued by the the City of Toronto in reference to use of "public space".

The actions of Queers Against Israeli Apartheid are blatantly in opposition to the policy statement and in his statement, Tory is demonstrating his support for the policy as stated.

The policy reads in part...

Hate activity could take the form of:

Public messages implying that members of an identifiable group are to be despised, scorned, denied respect and made subject to ill-treatment on the basis of group affiliation. Such messages may include group symbols, slogans or epithets and can be transmitted in many ways (e.g. graffiti, posters, flyers, hate mail, music lyrics, over the telephone, website and e-mail content, etc...

Use of Public Facilities
Public space, facilities and properties within the jurisdiction of the City of Toronto will not be available or accessible to any individual or group that promotes views and ideas which are likely to promote discrimination, contempt or hatred for any person on the basis of race, ethnic origin, place of origin, citizenship, colour, ancestry, language, creed (religion), age, sex, gender identity, gender expression, marital status, family status, sexual orientation, disability, political affiliation, membership in a union or staff association, receipt of public assistance, level of literacy or any other similar factor.

I would certainly say the activities fall within this definition.

Here is a video clip on the issue where John Tory speaks his mind on the issue of QAIA and pride. His present position is consistant with his past comments.
[youtube]upxeGsYVqBM[/youtube]

Edit: My apologies, Embedding won't work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upxeGsYVqBM#t=122

 

[Mandeep]

Can't defeat a moderate, paint him as a crazy radical is the bread and butter of left wingers.

 

[nfitz]

Yes, it is natural for one's views to shift, however, you went from calling Tory a bigot, to calling him ignorant, to calling him a bigot again.

I have to say I'm torn. Either he's bigoted ... or he's just completely ignorant about politics. As much as I'd like to believe the latter - his career choices suggest otherwise. So here it is. Is John Tory some kind of idiot savant - a Chauncey Gardiner ... or is he prone to gaffs uncovering his bigotry and racist support.

Either way ... I'm not very impressed.

No, I don't think Rob Ford is racist.

Ah, and this is where it get's interesting. You might be the only one who things that Rob Ford isn't a racist. Though you are also the only one here recently who has pointed out some of Adolf Hitler's good points.

Good grief, he physically attacked a taxi-drive and called him a Paki while shouting at him. Then he physically attacked a black guy and called him a nigger during the fight.

I can't believe anyone could possibly at that point say he isn't a racist!

I think he is an imbecile who has uttered racist comments

Then he is a racist. And so is anyone who tried to defend that calling someone a nigger while you are beating them isn't racist.

So basically we have you - someone who defends racism and someone who seeks to discuss Adolf Hitler's good points - trying to tell us that John Tory isn't bigoted.

Are there any non-racists out there who can vouch for Mr. Tory, or is this the best that the right-wing can dig up?

Complete and total fail. All your doing is confirming my opinions that only a racist would support a racist.

That's because it is a theory.

Wow, so your a creationist as well.

Evolution was a theory 150 years ago. It's been a very long time since it was considered just a theory. This is the language of creationist.

So here we've got the picture of where John Tory's support is.

People who think you can call someone a nigger without being a racist, discuss Adolf Hitler's good points, and use the language of creationists.

And your telling us we should support John Tory?!? Fail.

 

[nfitz]

I believe Tory, in his comments regarding QAIA and Pride funding was reacting to a policy statement issued by the the City of Toronto in reference to use of "public space".

The actions of Queers Against Israeli Apartheid are blatantly in opposition to the policy statement and in his statement, Tory is demonstrating his support for the policy as stated

So if this isn't related to the funding of a gay group, why did not Tory while he was an MPP ever on a single occasion speak out about this and similar groups being active at York University, and suggest that funding for York University be pulled by the province?

 

[freshcutgrass]

When did Tory say he was a pro-creationist? Please provide proof. Thanks....

"It's still called the theory of evolution," Tory said. "They teach evolution in the Ontario curriculum, but they also could teach the fact to the children that there are other theories that people have out there that are part of some Christian beliefs."

That's when.

It's immoral to lie to children.

 

[Civdis]

I can totally see Tory being dumb enough to be anti-science...pro-creationism. Sometimes I think he should just move to Jesusland (USA), where he would be much more popular.

It's my opinion that if you think the supernatural is real, then you are unfit to run for public office. I also think it should also make you ineligible to vote too, but I would be part of the very small majority.

The most arrogant thing I have read today. Why do you think creationism is anti-science? Most of the great scientists were creationists.

 

[Electrify]

Are we still talking about Extreme? Don't get an opportunity to post hair metal here often enough:

[video=youtube;I-h4A7bF8wQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-h4A7bF8wQ[/video]

(Tried to post this earlier from my phone, but couldn't remember how to embed the clip)

 

[Electrify]

One more for the open road:

[video=youtube;vWgQCJemN_s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWgQCJemN_s[/video]

 

[Silence&Motion]

And what did you say when she was in the lead for over half the year? She thought she was going to win because Tory is a three time loser and everyone just wanted Ford out. She really didn't campaign hard enough or even looked like she cared enough to win until about a week ago. Why you have such a hard time admitting this is beyond me, but on October 28 when she is not mayor you will be left wondering if she really did her best. Someone blowing a 9 month lead is not doing their best. When the stories come out a couple years from now about how Olivia didn't really want to this, don't say I didn't warn you.

I have no way of knowing how Chow truly feels about anything. All I can do is look at her actions. It seems unreasonable to me that someone would quit a plum position as a federal opposition critic and dedicate one year of their life to campaign for a job they don't really want. I'm also not sure how exactly you measure something like "campaigning hard enough". Her campaign has made mistakes, as evidenced by her slide in the polls. I think that Globe and Mail article did a good job of laying out the mistakes. I've never denied this.

Anyway, I'm not sure how any of this responds to my original comments about leadership. There are a lot of good leaders who fail to catch on in an election campaign. I will be voting for Olivia Chow because I think she's the best person for the job, not because I think she's going to win.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Why do you think creationism is anti-science?

I'm speaking of the popular idea of creationists denying evolution on the basis that they "think" it is in conflict with their religious beliefs.

Most of the great scientists were creationists.

I don't know about that. People usually trot out Einstein as an example, but he was definitely not a theist.

Science is completely oblivious to anything supernatural, so I suppose it's perfectly possible to believe in magic and practice science at the same time.

 

[Silence&Motion]

The most arrogant thing I have read today. Why do you think creationism is anti-science? Most of the great scientists were creationists.

I'm sure the mods are going to clamp down on this topic very soon, but I can't let this go. OF COURSE creationism is anti-science. There is no empirical basis for positing a divine creator behind life on earth. You cannot deduce any hypotheses about the existence of a divine creator, and can therefore not test it. All scientific evidence supports the theory of evolution. Any scientifically legitimate alternatives to the theory of evolution must come about through empirical tests.

Just because many "great scientists" believed in a divine creator doesn't mean that creationism is scientific. Newton believed in alchemy and ghosts. That doesn't make those things scientific.

Also, anyone who says "evolution's just a theory" as a way of questioning its legitimacy needs to repeat basic high school science.