[travis3000]

I've never resisted the urge to go full on, blistering ad hominem with anyone more than when I talk with you. I think most here would agree with me (silently) that you're one of, if not the most, discombobulating people we've ever encountered. I've tried to be patient with you but you have the reasoning ability of a little child. I spelled out my Hitler point in the simplest of terms and you still don't get it. It's as if you think I thought his genocide and delusions of grandeur were great things that ought to be lauded. Get a frigging clue. The whole point of that illustration was to show that even the worst of people can possess qualities that others can appreciate. I'm not absolving Hitler of his atrocities. Understand? But no, you just see the name, 'Hitler', and think of all the evil that encompassed his being, and black out the rest of what I was saying. How did you ever graduate with such poor perception skills? I guess anyone that likes Ernest Hemingway's writing advocates for suicide by shotgun? Everyone that bought Michael Jackson's records must be strongly in favour of plastic surgery? After all, if one supports someone like MJ, then they too would have to have serious mental health issues as well. It's just common sense...Who needs any middle ground? I wish John Tory was reading this so that he could sue you for libel. You would make the worst lawyer of all time. Imagine you trying to convince a judge and jury that John Tory is a racist, on the grounds you have provided, lol. It would be hilarious.

You keep calling Tory a bigot for wanting to defund Pride. What is your opinion of gay people that don't support public funding for pride; or even support the parade at all? Are they bigots? Answer that, you bully.

"My views are evolving. He supported a racist, he is a racist."

No, your views aren't evolving. They're going back and forth, ironically like John Tory's political ideas. You're a racist accuser/flip-flopper.

I agree with you. John Tory is not a racist. I listened to that mans radio show every day for 2 years... on Newstalk 1010 a very conservative audience. And Tory was always balanced, fair, and probably one of the most liberal talk show hosts on any AM radio network in Toronto. He supports the gay community, I just heard an interview a few days ago where Tory spoke about wanting to represent "all" of Toronto, and he spoke about wanting to represent the gay community as well. Tory participated in the gay debate, (Ford declined) and Tory has always spoken well of the parade. Just because he thinks this hate group goes against human right laws doesn't mean he hates gay people. It's ridiculous to make that connection. If you want to make anti gay comments about a politician... talk about Harper or Hudak. John Tory has never spoken negatively about the gay community. He's a good person, I've met him.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Originally Posted by Watts
Huh, so believing in creationism makes one extreme?

To the point of advocating the provision of public money to allow creationism to be taught in schools - yes.

I can totally see Tory being dumb enough to be anti-science...pro-creationism. Sometimes I think he should just move to Jesusland (USA), where he would be much more popular.

It's my opinion that if you think the supernatural is real, then you are unfit to run for public office. I also think it should also make you ineligible to vote too, but I would be part of the very small majority.

 

[Greg Banks]

If the choices were that bad, then Tory should have contributed to no one. However any one of these people would have been a better mayor then Ford. But according to Tory's judgement, Ford was the best choice.

Hindsight is always 20/20....Oh and 1288 other contributors to R Ford thought the same thing...Was their choice bad too?

 

[Greg Banks]

I can totally see Tory being dumb enough to be anti-science...pro-creationism. Sometimes I think he should just move to Jesusland (USA), where he would be much more popular.

It's my opinion that if you think the supernatural is real, then you are unfit to run for public office. I also think it should also make you ineligible to vote too, but I would be part of the very small majority.

When did Tory say he was a pro-creationist? Please provide proof. Thanks....

 

[travis3000]

I can totally see Tory being dumb enough to be anti-science...pro-creationism. Sometimes I think he should just move to Jesusland (USA), where he would be much more popular.

It's my opinion that if you think the supernatural is real, then you are unfit to run for public office. I also think it should also make you ineligible to vote too, but I would be part of the very small majority.

Lmao are you okay? You sound like a nut job. John Tory is NOT some bible thumping moron. Just because back in 2007 he claimed that Christian schools should be able to explore creationism in their religion classes does not mean he's some redneck moron. He's actually a progressive guy. Do you even know what you are talking about? Jeeze some of you guys in here are actually not informed at all.

 

[typezed]

All I've done is accuse Rob Ford of being racist, and that those who knowingly supported that racist of being racist.

Are those who knowingly support those who are racist because they knowingly support a racist also racist? How about those who knowingly support those who knowingly support those who are racist because they knowingly support a racist? Where will it end when you start rounding up folk for your reeducation camp?

 

[salsa]

Hindsight is always 20/20....Oh and 1288 other contributors to R Ford thought the same thing...Was their choice bad too?

Hell yes. Speaking of hindsight, lets not forget that Ford was councillor for many years. His behaviour and voting record should have been well known to anyone who was actually paying attention. Mayor Ford turned out exactly as I expected, until the crack.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Hmmmm. First post to UT and its full of weak Tory talking points, which have already been discussed extensively earlier on in the thread.

- typical that the minority woman gets attacked for not "appearing" like a "leader". Maybe she should have spent more time on the golf course with Tory to learn how to look like a leader.

And what did you say when she was in the lead for over half the year? She thought she was going to win because Tory is a three time loser and everyone just wanted Ford out. She really didn't campaign hard enough or even looked like she cared enough to win until about a week ago. Why you have such a hard time admitting this is beyond me, but on October 28 when she is not mayor you will be left wondering if she really did her best. Someone blowing a 9 month lead is not doing their best. When the stories come out a couple years from now about how Olivia didn't really want to this, don't say I didn't warn you.

I'm walking into this one way late and a dollar short however...
J Tory contributing to R Ford's 2010 campaign...Who else would he contribute to? Smitherman? No given the animosity shown by Furious George in the Legislation to the opposition 2003/07. Joey Pants? No. The annointed Miller replacement. Rossi or Thomson. No. They were bit players. It left only R Ford a bombastic minority of one with a tendency to abrasiveness and the unique ability to say the wrong thing at the right time and R Ford was the right's concensus candidate...Four years after parsing R Ford's fourteen year career to the nth degree innumerable warts have been unconvered. Were they there prior? Yes. Did it make any difference to 47% of those who voted. No.

J Tory supporting creationism? Bullcarckles...What he advocating was 'faith based school funding'. His message was misconstrued all he offered was the same playing field that now exists with the Catholic Board which works within the Ontario curriculum however includes additional religious teaching over and above...Oh and the last poll I seen on Creation belief is 28% worldwide and at least 42% in the USA so whether there is credence to the belief or not, it is widely held...It was the those who hold the Creation belief that were J Tory's biggest denigrators to his funding policy for fear the boogieman of Islam would turn children radical....

Here's the problem Greg. John is trying to be the everyman candidate. The guy who bends over backwards for everyone and anyone. It's not enough for him to be in the lead, every single person has to vote for him! Why he thinks that, I don't know, but it leads to things like this. He talks too much as well. He should have been able to avoid the qaia nonsense but he has a motormouth faster then his brain.


We have two less than candidates for mayor right now.

 

[nfitz]

I agree with you. John Tory is not a racist.

And yet he endorsed and funded a racist in the 2010 election. Or do you not think Rob Ford is a racist? He also tolerated Randy Hillier's presence in the PC caucus, despite having ample opportunities of drawing a line and removing him.

He supports the gay community

And yet he's been talking of pulling funding for Pride because of a group that attends the parade. That's not support. That's bigotry.

John Tory has never spoken negatively about the gay community.

And yet he jumped onto a long-since resolved anti-gay wedge issues being pushed by some very anti-gay people.

Hindsight is always 20/20....Oh and 1288 other contributors to R Ford thought the same thing...Was their choice bad too?

Some of the 1,288 were not paid to be astute political observers with a personal relationship with the Fords. If John Tory isn't a racist supporter then he's extremely ignorant and an extremely poor judge of character. Either way, clearly he's not fit to be mayor.

When did Tory say he was a pro-creationist? Please provide proof. Thanks....

The article and quote was provided above. See "Tory ignites creationism debate" at www.thestar.com/news/politics/2007/09/06/tory_ignites_creationism_debate.html where Tory was quoted as saying "It's still called the theory of evolution". He literally dissed evolution as only being a theory!

 

[Greg Banks]

Hell yes. Speaking of hindsight, lets not forget that Ford was councillor for many years. His behaviour and voting record should have been well known to anyone who was actually paying attention. Mayor Ford turned out exactly as I expected, until the crack.

Isn't that the whole crux of this, the City knew what it was getting itself into. The vast majority of the 47% of those who voted held their nose and put their X beside R Ford warts and all...Are his contributors to be blamed for that? Are the organizers of the Harmony dinner (Peterson, Harris, Tory) to be blamed for that? Are the contributors to be blamed for the 100K victory celebration even though the R Ford campaign was close to 800K in the hole? (I know I'm left fielding the last two but I just wanted to put them out there)

 

[Greg Banks]

Most of the 1,288 were not paid to be astute political observers with a personal relationship with the Fords. If John Tory isn't a racist supporter then he's extremely ignorant and an extremely poor judge of character. Either way, clearly he's not fit to be mayor.

You're sure about the 1288 are you? I don't disagree the nickel and dimers are exactly what you say however you might want to take a look R Ford's contributor list.....

 

[salsa]

Isn't that the whole crux of this, the City knew what it was getting itself into. The vast majority of the 47% of those who voted held their nose and put their X beside R Ford warts and all...Are his contributors to be blamed for that? Are the organizers of the Harmony dinner (Peterson, Harris, Tory) to be blamed for that? Are the contributors to be blamed for the 100K victory celebration even though the R Ford campaign was close to 800K in the hole? (I know I'm left fielding the last two but I just wanted to put them out there)

I was questioning the judgement of his contributors (Tory in particular). Rob had a track record, and when an intelligent person like Tory makes a big donation to him, I'm assuming that he did some research and knew who he was supporting. Tory knowingly supported someone who is a racist, who can't work with others, who is offensive to all kinds of people, who accomplished absolutely nothing in council, who votes against everything, who is anti bike, anti transit, has dumb fiscal policies, etc. I will not forgive him for that.

 

[nfitz]

You're sure about the 1288 are you? I don't disagree the nickel and dimers are exactly what you say however you might want to take a look R Ford's contributor list.....

No ... I'm not. Perhaps "some of the 1,288" would be a better phrase than "most of the 1,288". I apologize for assuming that most of Ford's weren't employed as political observers - but as I say, I always see the glass half-full.

I'm surprised though, I wouldn't have thought there were that many paid political hacks in the city.

 

[OSS 117]

Hindsight is always 20/20....Oh and 1288 other contributors to R Ford thought the same thing...Was their choice bad too?

Do you really need an answer to that?

 

[Watts]

Isn't it natural for ones views to shift, as one learns more.

All I've done is accuse Rob Ford of being racist, and that those who knowingly supported that racist of being racist. Do you really believe that Rob Ford isn't a racist? Do you think it's okay to support racists? If you do - shame on you. But I don't think you do - so what's the big deal?

And don't bring useless terms like "flip-flopper" in here. What a bizarre concept. All it means is one has enough of a brain to consider and reconsider an issue, based on more information. Surely any human without the capacity to do this, lives in a very black-and-white world - and is that a good thing?

Yes, it is natural for one's views to shift, however, you went from calling Tory a bigot, to calling him ignorant, to calling him a bigot again. You only changed your words when I challenged you. Had I not, Tory would have been a bigot all along, in your eyes.

Not true. You've accused John Tory of being a racist, homophobe and bigot because he supported Rob Ford. No, I don't think Rob Ford is racist. I think he is an imbecile who has uttered racist comments, but I don't believe he actually feels superior to black people, or any other race group. His comments are of course inexcusable. Stop framing the discussion to fit your agenda. We don't vote for personalities (well some might), we vote for the platform on which a candidate runs on. Do you honestly believe people voted for Rob Ford because they thought his alleged racism was endearing? Grow up.

"Surely any human without the capacity to do this, lives in a very black-and-white world - and is that a good thing?" Seriously, nfitz? You are the most black and white person on this forum. Everything you say is an example of this kind of thinking. One supports Rob Ford, well then, they're a racist. They couldn't have voted for a fiscal agenda, nope, just Rob's racism. Where is your deductive reasoning? You have no middle ground. You're a massive hypocrite. You seriously believe that everyone that supports Rob Ford's political platform is a racist? John Tory hates minorities because he backed Ford at one point? Do you not understand how offensive and brainless that is? I feel very embarrassed for you for not being able to distinguish between politics and personality. You're unbelievable.