Again. The question was about living comfortably, not about scrapping by. I highly doubt those families that are below median consider themselves comfortable.
I've known people of the cloth, who live on a pittance, who think themselves comfortable.
Please read the rest of my post. I absolutely do know what a co-op is. I just asked a simple question. If your supposedly "market rent" is below what most would pay in that area, how is that not a subsidy? Sure, it's not a direct subsidy (direct injection of government funds offsetting costs).
How is it a subsidy? Who is subsidizing the corporation, if it's breaking even? Co-ops aren't cheaper because they are subsidized. They are cheaper because they are non-profit. They wouldn't charge more than cost - so if they purchased their property years ago, then their costs have not increased simply because prices have gone up.
But co-ops getting lands for cheap or free, with discounted CMHC backed loans (especially back in the 70s and 80s) are certainly benefitting from some indirect subsidies.
Some might. Some paid market value ... years ago.
I'll bet a lot of developers would love to have access to those facilities.
You think a developer has never gotten land cheap or free with some government assistance?
I have nothing against it. I'd just like to call it what it is.
And yet you keep using the word subsidized. Anyone who buys a new first home these days gets a tax break. So then are homes subsidized?
And where did I ever say anything about some $ requirement stopping this family of 4 earning $60k?
Fair enough. Why do you think there'd be a requirement that you couldn't earn $6-million a year?
I said that most families would not consider living in a co-op comfortable. To me that's common sense. But feel free to disagree.
I completely disagree. I suppose those like John Tory born with a silver-spoon in their mouth would never feel comfortable in a co-op. I expect he'd feel uncomfortable in a typical 1,000 square foot east-end house as well. But I think a lot of people living in co-ops feel comfortable. I know people living in co-ops in Manhattan who feel quite comfortable and well-off. (and I use that example, simply as I don't offhand know anyone currently living in a Toronto co-op ... or perhaps I do, and just don't know it).
We can't really expect you to be truthful, can we?
??? What? What are you talking about. Family of 4 living in Toronto ... that's what we've been talking about. How does you suddenly start calling me a liar?
He didn't say you need $100k to live in Toronto. He said, a family of four, needs $100k to live comfortably in the downtown core. There's a huge difference between what you inferred he said and what he actually said.
We've been talking about family of 4 the entire time. I'm sorry I didn't type the entire thing the 12th time I used it. Hang on ... elsewhere I've seen the comment about family of 4 in Toronto. In other places downtown Toronto (and what's the definition of that ... Keele to Woodbine? Bay to Yonge?)
And again I ask, what does it say about Chow that only 7% of those who answered that CTV poll agree with her perception of what the average middle class family needs?
Does it matter? I said it's lower than $100,000. I never said it was $60,000. Though I ran the $60,000 numbers as an extreme example.
This discussion ends if you decide to be patronizing, insulting and/or belligerent. Hope the mods take note.
What are you referring to here? I asked you if you thought MEC was subsidized? In what way is this patronizing, insulting, or belligerent? I was simply trying to make point that co-op<>subsidized. I think you've misinterpreted what I said.
