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I'm not gonna defend Chow's shenanigans, but I hope you realize that Tory has been a lot worse at misrepresenting his opponent. As you know, Tory was once a stanch supporter of the DRL, whereas Chow at the time thought it shouldn't be an election issue, that it will be build eventually, etc. Her position was widely misunderstood and poorly explained (and I blame Chow for that), therefore she was accused of not supporting the DRL. Chow later clarified, saying something like: (which I paraphrase) "I absolutely support it, but I'm not gonna go promise things that I don't know where the funding comes from. Nothing is going to break ground for another four, five, years, six years, but I will immediately begin the engineering studies...".

But of course, Tory still continued to push his message about her "apparent refusal to commit to a downtown relief line" (his words). The Tory war room even set up a now defunct website for this very purpose: buildsubwayrelief.ca. That is, until he released the Smart Track plan, and suddenly he does a complete 180 and accuses Chow of supporting the relief line. "7 years not 17", ad nauseam. Actually, he knows that both numbers are disputed by Metrolinx and the chief planner. But hey, gotta follow the rhyme book.

The misrepresentations don't end there. In August he tries to use her support for the DRL to suggest to voters that she is more concerned about her own downtown area than the rest of the city. A map was released, titled "Olivia Chow's Transit Plan Avoids Toronto" (i.e the suburbs). I can't find it anymore, but the map included the relief line, which is very much in Toronto, and would definitely help suburban commuters. Sometimes he also used words like "her downtown-only subway line", or simply "her downtown relief line”. This is from the same guy who promised to end the downtown vs suburb rhetoric.

Oh, and then there's this:
15375052007_6bacbf0b77_c.jpg


What the hell prompted that? This was from August by the way, long before Chow did any of her NIMBY media stunts with the double tracking issues on the Stouffville line. Tory just keeps fabricating stuff as he goes along. This looks like something that would come from a Republican wingnut smear campaign. Actually, all of the transit news releases on his website sound more like a Harper or Fox News mouthpiece, full of half truths, and frequently using phrases like "NDP candidate Olivia Chow" (as seen above), "tax & spend career politician", "back-of-a-napkin scheme" (i.e Chow's bus plan), etc. Absolutely nauseating.





I wouldn't paint all Chow supporters with the same brush. I'm not that kind of supporter either, because I acknowledge that at least the LRT thing has been finally settled (only recently that is). Recall that Tory's earlier comments suggested that he would delay them indefinitely until the Smart Track is up and running. As for the DRL, I didn't even know he supported it until I did my extensive google search as I was writing this post. All I could find was this Toronto Star quote: "We’ll get to the downtown relief line, we’ll continue with the work on it, but we’ve got to proceed ahead with SmartTrack" (Sept 22, 2014). Ya, that's quite the support. By the way, the headline: Tory criticizes Chow over relief line, but says he still supports it. Hilarious! I guess my remaining concern now is that it could be further delayed or unfunded because of Smart Track, but we'll see. Ever since the Scarborough shit started, it's been abundantly clear that anyone who still pretends that the DRL is number one priority (other than Andy Byford) is lying.

As for your example, why don't you blame Tory for all this confusion? Why should I have to spend half an hour reading old news articles, just to figure out what is John Tory's changed position on something. He could have easily shut down that talking point by simply:
- Adding the LRTs and DRL on his transit map and policy papers
- Repeating his support for said transit lines during debates and press conferences, instead of just blathering on about Smart Track
- Stop blasting Chow for supporting it, or calling it a "downtown-only subway line"
- Stop pretending that SmartTrack is a good enough substitute for it, because it isn't

So to conclude, yes I agree that both campaigns have accused each other of not supporting the DRL. But please don't have sympathy for John Tory. He doesn't deserve it.

I don't disagree with most of what you've said, but they've both done stuff like that.

For example, look at these two transit maps on Chow's website, comparing Tory and Chow's plan:

http://www.oliviachow.ca/transit

Notice that Chow's includes 3 GO RER lines, but not Stouffville. Why? Because one of her attacks on SmartTrack is to be against double tracking Stouffville. So apparently she's against GO RER in Stouffville corridor.

Yet even though she's against one RER corridor for political reasons, she puts 3 other RER lines on her map to make it look bigger.

Now with the Union station capacity attack, she seems to be against GO RER in general. Even though she has 3 GO RER lines on her map!

I don't even want to get into the fact that Sheppard & Finch LRTs & DRL are on her map but not Tory's. But regardless, Tory has clearly stated support repeatedly now that he supports them.

His point that DRL will take 12-15 years before it opens, and we need to expand our transit in the meantime, is valid.


I do blame Tory for the DRL to SmartTrack, then back to supporting both confusion. In my opinion, they have both changed their positioning on several issues, and both misrepresented each other throughout the campaign.
 
The thing about supporting both DRL and SmartTrack is, isn't it kind of dumb to support both? When experts said you'd still need a DRL with SmartTrack, I think that should have been the end of SmartTrack. Otherwise it just ends up being a 9 billion dollar band-aid to a problem we're going to stitch up right after.
 
The thing about supporting both DRL and SmartTrack is, isn't it kind of dumb to support both? When experts said you'd still need a DRL with SmartTrack, I think that should have been the end of SmartTrack. Otherwise it just ends up being a 9 billion dollar band-aid to a problem we're going to stitch up right after.

The experts at Metrolinx seem to think the DRL is not needed. Here is the Metrolinx report from June 2014 for Yonge relief.

Top 6 options
  1. GO integration
  2. New GO stations
  3. Relief Line
  4. GO Rail
  5. Richmond Hill GO corridor
  6. Buses

It sure seems that Metrolinx is betting on GO solving the Y-B crowding.
 
The experts at Metrolinx seem to think the DRL is not needed. Here is the Metrolinx report from June 2014 for Yonge relief.

Top 6 options
  1. GO integration
  2. New GO stations
  3. Relief Line
  4. GO Rail
  5. Richmond Hill GO corridor
  6. Buses

It sure seems that Metrolinx is betting on GO solving the Y-B crowding.

Add to that according to Metrolinx GO electrification is all but assured as well the dual tracking of Stouffville South....
 
Not quite as dumb as supporting both SmartTrack and the Scarborough Town subway extension.
I don't see any conflict. It's not like those at Agincourt station are going to head east to the subway.

Now supporting SmartTrack and converting the existing SRT to LRT might be odd ... though it would make it easier to get from Markham to Scarborough Centre ...
 
The experts at Metrolinx seem to think the DRL is not needed. Here is the Metrolinx report from June 2014 for Yonge relief.

Top 6 options
  1. GO integration
  2. New GO stations
  3. Relief Line
  4. GO Rail
  5. Richmond Hill GO corridor
  6. Buses

It sure seems that Metrolinx is betting on GO solving the Y-B crowding.
Relief line is on the list. There's no indication that the order was ranked.
 
The experts at Metrolinx seem to think the DRL is not needed. Here is the Metrolinx report from June 2014 for Yonge relief.

Top 6 options
  1. GO integration
  2. New GO stations
  3. Relief Line
  4. GO Rail
  5. Richmond Hill GO corridor
  6. Buses

It sure seems that Metrolinx is betting on GO solving the Y-B crowding.

I was at the public meeting for the relief study, and I'm pretty sure what Metrolinx is looking at is: What can we do while the DRL is being built? Or in other words, in addition to the DRL being built.

Because the DRL will take 12-15 years before it's open, they are looking at ways to provide relief in a shorter timeframe that >12 years later.
 
The experts at Metrolinx seem to think the DRL is not needed. Here is the Metrolinx report from June 2014 for Yonge relief.

Top 6 options
  1. GO integration
  2. New GO stations
  3. Relief Line
  4. GO Rail
  5. Richmond Hill GO corridor
  6. Buses

It sure seems that Metrolinx is betting on GO solving the Y-B crowding.

Relief line is on the list. There's no indication that the order was ranked.

Even it it was ranked, Metrolinx's experts still would have ranked the Relief Line as having more importance than GO RER ("Subway-like service in existing GO corridors within Toronto") for Yonge Relief. But as you said, it's not ranked.

The TTC studied something similar to to GO RER plan and they concluded that it would have little impact on crowding on Yonge. And if it did have an impact, it would be a negative one.
 
I don't see any conflict. It's not like those at Agincourt station are going to head east to the subway.

How would there not be a conflict? Againcort Station would be less than 2 km from Sheppard East Station on Line 2, if the Scarborough Subway extension were built. Those two stations are only a 5 minute trip apart from each other.
 
Relief line is on the list. There's no indication that the order was ranked.

Not sure if that was "ranking", just ennumerating options based on "high performers" or the ease of implemenation

It would be much easier to integrate say TTC buses at GO stations (1) or modify stopping patterns at GO train stations (2) than do an EA for a relief line (3) Danforth Go shuttle service (4) create a Broadview GO shuttle (5) or Thorncliffe-Bayview busway (6)
 
The experts at Metrolinx seem to think the DRL is not needed. Here is the Metrolinx report from June 2014 for Yonge relief.

Top 6 options
  1. GO integration
  2. New GO stations
  3. Relief Line
  4. GO Rail
  5. Richmond Hill GO corridor
  6. Buses

Who cares what a bunch of Sunshine List "experts" think about this? I want to know what a sticker salesman, a career politician and a corporate CEO/radio host have to say about this! Those people know how to draw a line on a map, lemme tell you.

Seriously - I wish there was a law that prevented mayoral candidates from designing transit plans. I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard any of the 3 of them acknowledge Metrolinx even exists and already has a plan for the entire GTA.
Geeze.
 
Why does everyone refer to DRL as "THE DRL" such a thing exists only as one of many plans or options none of which have been studied or priced. The DRL should only be referred to as "A DRL" and the fact that it is only a concept be acknowledged.
 
Why does everyone refer to DRL as "THE DRL" such a thing exists only as one of many plans or options none of which have been studied or priced. The DRL should only be referred to as "A DRL" and the fact that it is only a concept be acknowledged.

Semantics aside, the RL has been studied and priced. See the DTRES. All that's left to be determined at this point is the precise route (right now the route could vary by +/- 0.7km).
 
I don't see any conflict. It's not like those at Agincourt station are going to head east to the subway.

Now supporting SmartTrack and converting the existing SRT to LRT might be odd ... though it would make it easier to get from Markham to Scarborough Centre ...

Thing is, the subway will have stops at Lawrence, STC, and Sheppard, while SmartTrack will be only a few kilometres to the west with stations at Lawrence, Ellesmere, Sheppard, Finch, and Steeles. Those subway riders would be drawn from the same territory that SmartTrack would serve. Building both therefore dilutes the value either service would provide. Also, a large amount of potential subway riders were projected to come from Markham. The model assumed that Markhamites would drive to Scarborough and park their cars there to take the subway for trips to downtown. Obviously they should be on the Stouffville GO service / Smart Track, but demand models have been used before to inflate demand for new subways either with unreasonably rosy land use forecasts or by selective omission of competing services. If the GO corridors really can handle frequent service, and both SmartTrack and the Scarborough subway are built, then the expected subway demand may never materialize. Toronto will have paid a high premium to finance infrastructure beyond what it actually needs.

At least that's what I read on Steve Munro's blog.
 

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