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Just came in here to say that I hate hearing the phrase "What's the story Mr Tory?". Ugh!! That's all.

+1

Does DF really think such a school yard taunr will attract any of Tory's soft supporters? Funny thing is from a brand recognition POV those ads mention Tory multiple times but Ford only once. Can you imagine an iPhone ad that mentioned Samsung throughout?
 
Calling it a "downtown" is still something of a stretch. Markham could have pursued centralization and development intensification 20 years ago and didn't. It's notable that plans for significant employment in the "downtowns" of both North York and Scarborough still have yet to materialize.

No suburb in North America was seriously pursuing centralization 20 years ago and Markham has been at the forefront of changing it. Scarborough has been a total loss whereas NYC has been, I would say, a partial success. Obviously the jobs have not materialized as hoped but clearly the residential is taking off.

As for Pacific Mall, it's true that it's been around "only" for 17 years rather than 20. Most of Markham is still comprised to single family
detached housing in a typical low-density suburban pattern.

Most of Toronto is also the same pattern but it's older and had different governance so it's got more of a mix built in to that pattern. No reason "newer" suburbs can't build similar nodes over time.

There is no intensification at Yorkdale because the subway station is surrounded by single-family detached housing.

Have you been to Yorkdale? How close to that station is the nearest house? 1 km? No, it's surrounded by highways and a mall and that's why there's no intensification at Yorkdale. Putting that line in the middle of the road is why there's no intensification there. (And, ironically, Yorkdale is such a succesful mall, I bet they never even considered adding any residential during their re-development. Who wants to live at the corner of Allen Road and 401?) Downsview is probably a better example of what you're talking about except they are, bit by bit, getting some nice mid-rise going along there.

Anyway, we agree about Lawrence Heights but you can't really compare that rather unique subway plan (itself a compromise, since the Expressway was killed) with a true subway like Sheppard or (without going on another tangent) the potential Yonge extension. And, FWIW, not every Yonge stop has substantial development either. York Mills and Rosedale aren't exactly intensification hotspots but, of course, there are reasons for that.


Or they'd be living in condos in Thornhill along Bathurst or almost anywhere else.

But that's the whole point. There haven't been many condos built in the suburbs to date. Sheppard is helping provide them and, more to the point, that's what's changing over the past 20 years (to go back to the top of this post!); more mixed development in areas that, as you correctly note, are almost entirely single-family homes.

Anyway, to conclude back on thread (I always try!), NO ONE will be remotely as bad as the Fords and I don't think Chow or Tory is perfect. I think Tory is more-less-perfect (or...less-more-perfect?) than Chow and I think he'll be a good mayor and some people (not you, just generally) have been hysterical about the prospect. He'll do some things I won't like but then so would have Chow...that's democracy.
 
Though it'd be worth monitoring the "ethnic" media--if you're going to find DoFo editorial endorsement anywhere, it *might* be there...

Ye of little faith! You forgot about the hateful, twisted mind that is Sue-Ann Levy!
http://m.torontosun.com/2014/10/25/doug-ford-is-best-choice-for-mayor-levy

I like that she thinks "kum ba ya" is three words, like some kind of Korean dish. There's pretty much no actual argument there; just that she knows he'll stand up to the Unions and Special Interests. Lame. But whatever floats your boat.
 
Have you been to Yorkdale? How close to that station is the nearest house? 1 km? No, it's surrounded by highways and a mall and that's why there's no intensification at Yorkdale. Putting that line in the middle of the road is why there's no intensification there. (And, ironically, Yorkdale is such a succesful mall, I bet they never even considered adding any residential during their re-development. Who wants to live at the corner of Allen Road and 401?) Downsview is probably a better example of what you're talking about except they are, bit by bit, getting some nice mid-rise going along there.

I've been to Yorkdale dozens upon dozens of times. I even vaguely remember when it was closed Sundays and there was a Simpsons. My mom lives fairly close by and likes to walk along Ranee to get there. There are houses right next to the Allen and some separated by a small park just east of the subway station. Certainly much, much closer than 1km, and these residential neighbourhoods extend right to the southern edge of the Yorkdale site. Another example is Wilson where development on the west side of the Allen has taken the form of big box stores, while on the east side condos have finally been built, replacing an old bowling alley and nondescript industrial buildings. But there are still neighbourhoods (almost exclusively detached housing) just on the other side of Wilson Heights, some of which only date from the 90s.

Anyway, we agree about Lawrence Heights but you can't really compare that rather unique subway plan (itself a compromise, since the Expressway was killed) with a true subway like Sheppard or (without going on another tangent) the potential Yonge extension. And, FWIW, not every Yonge stop has substantial development either. York Mills and Rosedale aren't exactly intensification hotspots but, of course, there are reasons for that.

The problem is that this will also be true of something like SmartTrack. However, its financing depends on development materializing - that's the essence of TIF.

But that's the whole point. There haven't been many condos built in the suburbs to date. Sheppard is helping provide them and, more to the point, that's what's changing over the past 20 years (to go back to the top of this post!); more mixed development in areas that, as you correctly note, are almost entirely single-family homes.

I disagree that Sheppard has done much in that respect. There were already numerous condo towers north along Yonge and near the Promenade (and to the east near Bayview and John) in Thornhill. Now there are even more. The same goes for development along Hwy 7 over the last 10 years. That's all without subways and even predates the VIVA routes to some degree. Similarly many, many condos have popped up all along the 401, especially in Scarborough, and there are plenty of condo and apartment towers pretty much everywhere. A major problem in the suburbs - inner and outer - is a development pattern that not only militates against transit, but against walkability too. Everything is too far apart, with clusters of strip malls and grocery stores separated by vast tracts of uniform residential development. This is as much a consequence of bad zoning as anything else, but that's what it's like. A further problem is that people can't or won't live near their place of employment. That's less of an issue if you live and work downtown (though people dependent on the 501 might disagree), but of course has enormous implications for congestion and "gridlock".

Anyway, to conclude back on thread (I always try!), NO ONE will be remotely as bad as the Fords and I don't think Chow or Tory is perfect. I think Tory is more-less-perfect (or...less-more-perfect?) than Chow and I think he'll be a good mayor and some people (not you, just generally) have been hysterical about the prospect. He'll do some things I won't like but then so would have Chow...that's democracy.

Yeah. I think I've outlined fairly clearly why I'm skeptical about a Tory mayoralty. But as something of an agreeable type, he will at least help bring an end to the circus of the last four years. Though a potted plant might do well there too. Yay for a "weak mayor" system either way.
 
I've met SAL. I rarely read her but then I rarely read any newspapers or columnists these days. I did read that opinion piece and can agree with her at a base level: everyone wants a deal, right? From saving money on a smartphone to paying less for a home, the bottom line is lower taxes are desirable in an ideal universe.

Which is ultimately what SAL is passionate about: being cheap.:)
 
These debates are exhausting. I'm glad the election will be over tomorrow.

We can get on with the business of actually crafting a sensible transportation strategy that will please both downtowners and suburbanites.

If Chow gets elected, I'll fear the backlash four years hence. Just like Ford is a direct reaction to the Miller mayoralty.
 
+1

Does DF really think such a school yard taunr will attract any of Tory's soft supporters?

I don't think that was ever their aim. If you look at all of Ford's attacks on Tory, they're from the left. Ford isn't trying to steal Tory supporters: he's trying to make Chow voters strategically going with Tory go back to Chow to force a split.
 
Doug Ford continues to go after the hearts and minds of "taxpayers" in Toronto,
simpsons-iraq.jpg

when he should be going after the voters.
 

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Anyway, to conclude back on thread (I always try!), NO ONE will be remotely as bad as the Fords and I don't think Chow or Tory is perfect. I think Tory is more-less-perfect (or...less-more-perfect?) than Chow and I think he'll be a good mayor and some people (not you, just generally) have been hysterical about the prospect. He'll do some things I won't like but then so would have Chow...that's democracy.

Agreed. Tory looks to be the winner of this race. Though I think he will likely be a one term mayor, not there's anything inherently wrong with that. At least ranked ballots will likely be in place come 2018.
 
Agreed. Tory looks to be the winner of this race. Though I think he will likely be a one term mayor, not there's anything inherently wrong with that. At least ranked ballots will likely be in place come 2018.
Ranked ballots wouldn't have stopped RF in 2010. They raise the bar certainly, but don't count on them to block all the distasteful candidates.
 
Ranked ballots wouldn't have stopped RF in 2010. They raise the bar certainly, but don't count on them to block all the distasteful candidates.

No, it certainly won't block all chances of another merryl clown show. But it's still an improvement IMO over what we're using now. And that's good enough for now, at least for me.
 

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