[kEiThZ]

If there was some choice between exclusive lane LRT vs BRT then we'd have something to consider. But there is no such choice before us now.

This has always been my criticism of Metrolinx. Big Move reads like a municipal transit shopping list, rather than a coherent regional transport plan. Look at Sheppard. East of McCowan, you are easily in BRT territory. Or even lower.

Had they truly considered how the system should have been built (regional focus on RER at its core, with buses as feeders and LRTs as medium haul), we'd have ended up with a much different vision and many more shovels in the ground.

In any event, that's neither here nor there. The plan was published. It's now time to push the changes to make that plan workable.

 

[ehlow]

Well, I agree with you that if there was some mutually exclusive choice between GO RER and Sheppard & Finch LRTs, I would have chosen GO RER.

But there is no such choice now, we're in a situation where both GO RER and the LRTs should be moving ahead, which is a good thing in my opinion.

 

[ssiguy2]

Saying GO is distance based is a bold faced liar. GO is a 905 based system not distance based.

If it was distance based you wouldn't have a fare from Union to Burlington costing 17 cents per km and one from just Bloor West costing 80 cents per km not would you have the same fare from Weston to Union as Bloor West. You can't get down to the very penny for fares, I know that but that is a grotesque warping of any suggestion that GO is a distance based system.

People like Munro and Miller don't seem to get their head around the fact that people want very fast transit at a price they can afford. Tory get's that more than any candidate or Metrolinx. He knows that SmartTrax is essentially based on a GO RER service but he also knows that fare integration, while certainly necessary, still leaves hundreds of thousands of Torontonians without affordable and fast transit.

Tory understands that the overwhelming majority people who take transit are transit dependent. Students, the elderly, disabled, unemployed, working poor, and even the working class who can't afford the extra gas and parking. This is why, despite all the transit gurus, SmartTrax has so much traction with the average Torontonian...............it's GO RER without the extra fare.

Imagine if you lived near Weston and they finally brought in fare integration. Although that would save you the equivalent of a TTC ticket to use GO, which is certainly helpful, but still requires about an extra $4 dollars a day for you commute.....$2 each way. That is an extra $40 {after tax} you may not have and that is the MINIMUM anyone in the city would have to pay extra. For most that's little about for a poor person, one on a fixed income, a single parent, a student, or working poor that is money that simply may not have.

SmartTrax has traction because it's the truly fast transit Torontonians need at the price they can afford.

 

[kEiThZ]

@ssiguy2

Well put. You've captured the crux of the issue well.

 

[gweed123]

You always imply there was some choice between LRTs (Transit City) or GO RER.

There has never been, and there isn't some sort of choice between those two. Provincial Liberals support both GO RER & LRT. Tory and Chow both support LRT and GO RER.

It seems you always try to position it as one vs the other, when they are both planned.

Let's be honest here though: LRT expansion has been on the radar since about 2006 (debut of Transit City). GO RER hasn't really been on the radar since the election this year. Metrolinx dabbled with it a little bit a few years ago and came to the conclusion that only Lakeshore and Georgetown should be electrified, but gave no real timeline or funding to it.

The option of "we'll build both" is a very recent thing. Up until that point it was very much a subway vs LRT debate.

This has always been my criticism of Metrolinx. Big Move reads like a municipal transit shopping list, rather than a coherent regional transport plan. Look at Sheppard. East of McCowan, you are easily in BRT territory. Or even lower.

Had they truly considered how the system should have been built (regional focus on RER at its core, with buses as feeders and LRTs as medium haul), we'd have ended up with a much different vision and many more shovels in the ground.

In any event, that's neither here nor there. The plan was published. It's now time to push the changes to make that plan workable.

The issue with the Big Move is that it came after most of the cities/regions had already come up with their TMPs. There was some massaging here and there, but by and large those TMPs were included verbatim into the Big Move, Transit City especially. I agree with you that had those TMPs not existed the priorities in the Big Move, and the map itself, would have looked pretty different.

 

[kEiThZ]

The issue with the Big Move is that it came after most of the cities/regions had already come up with their TMPs. There was some massaging here and there, but by and large those TMPs were included verbatim into the Big Move, Transit City especially. I agree with you that had those TMPs not existed the priorities in the Big Move, and the map itself, would have looked pretty different.

Really, The Big Move should have focused on getting the regional elements addressed first. I always found it bizarre how they created a regional TMP with very little focus on regional movement!

They could have saved most of the LRTs (save Eglinton and SRT replacement) for the last phase of TBM. That's a plan that would have made most voters quite happy.

 

[gweed123]

Really, The Big Move should have focused on getting the regional elements addressed first. I always found it bizarre how they created a regional TMP with very little focus on regional movement!

They could have saved most of the LRTs (save Eglinton and SRT replacement) for the last phase of TBM. That's a plan that would have made most voters quite happy.

Agreed. Even if they had done interim improvements along the LRT corridors (queue jump lanes, etc) and electrified the GO network I think that a lot of people would have approved of it, especially because the interim improvements would have been in the timespan of months or a couple of years, instead of almost a decade.

 

[innsertnamehere]

the original plan had the LRTs done in a few years too remember, the Sheppard LRT was supposed to be done already.

 

[kEiThZ]

the original plan had the LRTs done in a few years too remember, the Sheppard LRT was supposed to be done already.

Nobody can fault the authorities for not delivering when our chattering classes kept bickering.

 

[kEiThZ]

What I'm curious about now is how the Metrolinx RER can be tailored to meet the goals of Smart Track, and how much would those modifications cost?

 

[WislaHD]

Supposedly Metrolynx are having a BoD meeting in December about GO RER? That may be the first real indications of implementing some of the aspects of SmartTrack into GO RER.

 

[ehlow]

What I'm curious about now is how the Metrolinx RER can be tailored to meet the goals of Smart Track, and how much would those modifications cost?

It doesn't really change what needs to be done for RER:

1. Finishing Georgetown project
2. Stouffville RER improvements, double tracking, grade separations
3. Electrification, buying EMUs
4. Looking at Union station capacity

So, I don't think it changes the RER implementation plan that much, other than maybe moving Stouffville up in priority if it isn't already. But the fundamental stuff for RER is needed regardless.

I would think the additional stuff would be maybe starting studies on through-routing Georgetown & Stouffville, additional stations, and fare integration.

Supposedly Metrolynx are having a BoD meeting in December about GO RER? That may be the first real indications of implementing some of the aspects of SmartTrack into GO RER.

Yeah.

 

[nfitz]

Nobody can fault the authorities for not delivering when our chattering classes kept bickering.

The authorities (Premier McGuinty) delayed Sheppard East while Miller was still mayor. Would have opened in 2013. Now it's 2020. The later Ford delay to Sheppard East didn't last 7 years.

 

[innsertnamehere]

the only difference "smart track" may require presuming that the Eglinton portion is dropped is large trains on the Stouffville corridor. Traditionally they may have used 3 car trains but they may need 6 car trains now.

 

[Rainforest]

What I'm curious about now is how the Metrolinx RER can be tailored to meet the goals of Smart Track, and how much would those modifications cost?

Union station capacity is likely the main issue. In order to relief the core subway system, a new RER tunnel through downtown is likely needed.

The rail corridor width through East Toronto is another concern. Two more issues are the grade separation of Scarborough Junction, and the width of Uxbridge sub corridor south of Eglinton.