[PinkLucy]

Yeah, I'd probably hand control of government to a monkey for a change just to watch how effective (or not!) our bureaucracy is. I'm telling you, between the judiciary and the bureaucracy running things we don't need a government.

How exactly can electricity prices be lowered without it costing us more money which is what the Liberals current plan is?

That’s the thing isn’t it? Everyone would like lower hydro costs but no one has a real plan to accomplish that. Wynne has lowered them, but it will cost us down the road. Horvath doesn’t have a plan. Ford blusters and complains but doesn’t propose any workable solutions.

 

[Jasmine18]

Yeah, I'd probably hand control of government to a monkey for a change just to watch how effective (or not!) our bureaucracy is. I'm telling you, between the judiciary and the bureaucracy running things we don't need a government.

How exactly can electricity prices be lowered without it costing us more money which is what the Liberals current plan is?

We could have easily used the far North or even teamed Up With Quebec to build hydroelectric power and get limitless, cheap, green energy. It's far less costly than maintaining nuclear plants.

However, the liberals ideologically pursue the failed policy of green energy that massively increased prices on Ontarions.

So it is true Ford is an idiot, but the liberals have a proven track record of being complete and utter idiots on hydro and they should stop making Hydro an issue unless they want to lose badly.

That’s the thing isn’t it? Everyone would like lower hydro costs but no one has a real plan to accomplish that. Wynne has lowered them, but it will cost us down the road. Horvath doesn’t have a plan. Ford blusters and complains but doesn’t propose any workable solutions.

As I said she is the arsonist and now is the firefighter and you think I should tip my hat to her for that lol.

 

[SunriseChampion]

That’s the thing isn’t it? Everyone would like lower hydro costs but no one has a real plan to accomplish that. Wynne has lowered them, but it will cost us down the road. Horvath doesn’t have a plan. Ford blusters and complains but doesn’t propose any workable solutions.

Whoah, not everyone. I, for one, don't give a toss. As I've said before, I'll gladly pay the current ~$40/month for my tea kettle to work. I'd pay that just for the tea kettle, lights and one outlet, to be honest.

What can be done though? I'm not sure there is a way to just arbitrarily lower prices without it costing money. Is there?

You have various power generating, transmission, and distribution companies. Everyone gets a finger or four in the pie, it gets complicated, some are government some are private and some are publicly-traded.

 

[Northern Light]

Hey @MTown how come I can't start a 'conversation' with you? That's weird! Just saying.

Btw....electricity prices........there are ways, though none are easy or immediate.....

Short version:

1) The province currently has surplus power, but sells it on the spot market, last I checked, this is a bad way to make money.
The need is to shift to a reliable way to dump surplus power at a good price.

2) To do the above, you have a few options, the most practical is to join an alliance w/Hydro Quebec, (which some parties in Quebec have proposed), Quebec has very good access to portions of the US North-East market that are short on power. The ability to shift power back and forth w/better connections through Quebec could allow cheap Quebec power to Ontario at times, and somewhat pricier Ontario power routed to the US at others.

That will not save the average Ontario rate payers bundles, but it could cut the projected price noticeably.

3) Invest in conservation, such that the average person pays lower bills because they use less. This is already being done, but sometimes in remarkably cumbersome ways.

4) Many more people would be content (or less angry) if they only understood their bills. It remains a critical issue to cut the BS (see Global Adjustment charge) from them.

 

[PinkLucy]

As I said she is the arsonist and now is the firefighter and you think I should tip my hat to her for that lol.

When did anyone suggest you do that?

 

[SunriseChampion]

What, now that's a thing? I haven't been getting notifications of new messages for well over two years now and now people can't even initiate convos? Buuuunk software or I really don't know what I'm doing. I just had a convo going with someone last week.

 

[SunriseChampion]

When did anyone suggest you do that?

I think the fact that people were assigning false positions to her made her start reading implications where there are none.

...or maybe not.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Btw....electricity prices........there are ways, though none are easy or immediate.....

Short version:

1) The province currently has surplus power, but sells it on the spot market, last I checked, this is a bad way to make money.
The need is to shift to a reliable way to dump surplus power at a good price.

2) To do the above, you have a few options, the most practical is to join an alliance w/Hydro Quebec, (which some parties in Quebec have proposed), Quebec has very good access to portions of the US North-East market that are short on power. The ability to shift power back and forth w/better connections through Quebec could allow cheap Quebec power to Ontario at times, and somewhat pricier Ontario power routed to the US at others.

That will not save the average Ontario rate payers bundles, but it could cut the projected price noticeably.

3) Invest in conservation, such that the average person pays lower bills because they use less. This is already being done, but sometimes in remarkably cumbersome ways.

4) Many more people would be content (or less angry) if they only understood their bills. It remains a critical issue to cut the BS (see Global Adjustment charge) from them.

The first proposal makes sense but I'm not sure Hydro Quebec would go for it. They like their fiefdom from what I can tell.

Conservation can lead to surplus power which in theory should lower cost but at the same time cut into revenue for hydro companies which they would have to offset somehow which could just drive up costs even more.

The Global Adjustment fee apparently was instituted to cover costs associated with the Green Energy Plan. I'm guessing that includes such things as subsidies, bullshit high-cost contracts for electricity supply from small suppliers, and whatever else. Can it just be eliminated?[/user]

 

[Northern Light]

What, now that's a thing? I haven't been getting notifications of new messages for well over two years now and now people can't even initiate convos? Buuuunk software or I really don't know what I'm doing. I just had a convo going with someone last week.

Can't speak to all that. Merely that I tried to start a convo and it said
"You can not start a conversation with member Mtown"

The first proposal makes sense but I'm not sure Hydro Quebec would go for it. They like their fiefdom from what I can tell.

Conservation can lead to surplus power which in theory should lower cost but at the same time cut into revenue for hydro companies which they would have to offset somehow which could just drive up costs even more.

The Global Adjustment fee apparently was instituted to cover costs associated with the Green Energy Plan. I'm guessing that includes such things as subsidies, bullshit high-cost contracts for electricity supply from small suppliers, and whatever else. Can it just be eliminated?[/user]

The IESO's explanation of the charge is as follows:

he global adjustment is set monthly to reflect:

• The differences between the wholesale market price for electricity, known as Hourly Ontario Energy Price (HOEP) and:

• Regulated rates for Ontario Power Generation’s nuclear and hydroelectric generating stations
• Payments for building or refurbishing infrastructure such as gas-fired and renewable facilities and other nuclear, as well as the contracted rates paid to a number of generators across the province

• The cost of delivering conservation programs

***

The cost in question can't be waved away, but there is no need to list it as a separate charge on the bill.

It simply makes it difficult for most people to comprehend.

***

Hydro Quebec need not do us any favours, they would make a profit on any deal.

 

[BurlOak]

We could have easily used the far North or even teamed Up With Quebec to build hydroelectric power and get limitless, cheap, green energy. It's far less costly than maintaining nuclear plants.

However, the liberals ideologically pursue the failed policy of green energy that massively increased prices on Ontarions.

So it is true Ford is an idiot, but the liberals have a proven track record of being complete and utter idiots on hydro and they should stop making Hydro an issue unless they want to lose badly.

The Quebec side of James Bay is higher than the Ontario side. Many of the rivers in Northern Ontario are dammed - but it happens farther upsteam (away from the Sea) where the rivers are smaller. In Quebec, the dams can be closer to the Bay where they are larger.

There are 2 things that occurred in the past 15 years.

1. Natural Gas replaced coal. Eves started this process about a year before the 2003 election and promised to eliminate all coal by 2015. McGuinty promised to do the same by 2007. The Liberals achieved this in 2014. This step makes all the electricity Ontario needs.
2. Build Green energy. Massive sole sourced contract for Wind and solar. Paying ~80cents/kWh when it sold for 10% of that. IIRC, the auditor found that we paid about $40B more than we should have for this green energy. When you look at all the numbers - this green energy represents less than 5% of Ontario's total - and actually forces us to sell dirt cheap electricity to the states (or pay them to take it), while we are paying top dollar for the little that is produced green. The ontario engineers (OSPE) have also come out strongly against the energy policies.

 

[Northern Light]

We could have easily used the far North or even teamed Up With Quebec to build hydroelectric power and get limitless, cheap, green energy. It's far less costly than maintaining nuclear plants.

Hey, wait another minute..........there's another fairly coherent, factually accurate thought here. That's two in one night!

Now just stop when you're ahead and I could actually 'like' these. (the green energy reference was a bit of reach factually in terms of bill impact; and the arsonist reference is way over the top)

 

[SunriseChampion]

Can't speak to all that. Merely that I tried to start a convo and it said
"You can not start a conversation with member Mtown"

This is like me with my mobile phone: usually off.

The IESO's explanation of the charge is as follows:

he global adjustment is set monthly to reflect:

• The differences between the wholesale market price for electricity, known as Hourly Ontario Energy Price (HOEP) and:

• Regulated rates for Ontario Power Generation’s nuclear and hydroelectric generating stations
• Payments for building or refurbishing infrastructure such as gas-fired and renewable facilities and other nuclear, as well as the contracted rates paid to a number of generators across the province

• The cost of delivering conservation programs

***

The cost in question can't be waved away, but there is no need to list it as a separate charge on the bill.

It simply makes it difficult for most people to comprehend.
.

Yeah, so that would include any high-priced contracts that the government signed for electricity provisions. Can these contracts be cancelled or would that cost too much to make it worthwhile?

 

[SunriseChampion]

1. Build Green energy. Massive sole sourced contract for Wind and solar. Paying ~80cents/kWh when it sold for 10% of that. IIRC, the auditor found that we paid about $40B more than we should have for this green energy. When you look at all the numbers - this green energy represents less than 5% of Ontario's total - and actually forces us to sell dirt cheap electricity to the states (or pay them to take it), while we are paying top dollar for the little that is produced green. The ontario engineers (OSPE) have also come out strongly against the energy policies.

Can we cancel these contracts? They've already cancelled a couple of gas plants and Ford wants to cancel Hydro One's CEO which would also cost money. The Liberals current price-cutting plan costs more in the long-term. So, let's just add to the fire heap (I love a good bonfire) and cancel these, no?

 

[Northern Light]

1. Build Green energy. Massive sole sourced contract for Wind and solar. Paying ~80cents/kWh when it sold for 10% of that. IIRC, the auditor found that we paid about $40B more than we should have for this green energy. When you look at all the numbers - this green energy represents less than 5% of Ontario's total - and actually forces us to sell dirt cheap electricity to the states (or pay them to take it), while we are paying top dollar for the little that is produced green. The ontario engineers (OSPE) have also come out strongly against the energy policies.

This is not all that accurate (the rest of your post was good).

I'm not aware of any commercial solar contracts issued at .80c per KW/H; that was home-owner, roof-top installation. (inconsequential)

While some contracts were way up there in the early days, solar, at the time never sold for anything like .8c per KW/H, anywhere.

Solar power contracts are only paid for at that rate when they generate power.

Commercial Solar is under 1% of Ontario's supply.

Wind was never paid for at anything like that, though it was overpaid for.

The contract issue was mishandled. The Commercial renewable contracts should have been tendered.

They did overpay.

But not on the scale you imagine.

The primary cost drivers are elsewhere.

 

[SunriseChampion]

The primary cost drivers are elsewhere.

Don't you dare say the Hydro One CEO's compensation package.