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*reaches for popcorn*
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- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
rbt
Senior Member
For those of us not living in Ontario suburbs can you be more specific? I ask specifically because I do NOT know what you're experiencing.
What costs have increased over the last 30 months (since her first budget) in Ontario only (I.e. not a result of dollar changes/national policy/international treaties)?
I know generally the dollar falling would make imports roughly 30% more expensive which would impact most people; but that's not really a Wynne thing or even just an Ontario thing.
From my own budget, my spending in most categories (travel is a big exception: flights/hotels) has actually decreased over the last 30 months; even my electricity bills are a little lower (replaced older computers and a few 24/7 lights that are on most of the time).
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Jasmine18
Senior Member
Hydro has gone up dramatically ever since the Liberals have been elected since 2003 by far far greater amount then inflation and the amount that is being reduced currently. It is not acceptable that people have to pay 500$ plus and people are taking steps to reduce power use and still getting large bills. Our Power bill has increased by 20% in the past year yet our usage has declined.
Insurance rates have reduced but not to people living in Brampton at all. A middle age driver in his 20's is paying 2000-3000 dollars a year with a clean record to drive his car while a person living in other provinces is likely paying half of that. The government has created a policy to benefit the insurance companies, with lower benefits and increasing insurance rates it seems.
The liberal government has dramatically increased the fees for driver stickers far greater then rate of inflation and has a new Clean Emission Test that pretty much does nothing to reduce emissions as cars that are polluting are passing but a new car with a computer problem has to do 100's of dollars of needless repairs to keep people like yourself happy about the world.
While the government has been collecting all of this money they have been wasting it in a dramatic fashion with billions of dollars of scandals since 2003 and seemingly endless stories such as spending 70 million dollars to create a pension plan that never came to fruition, spending well over 90% of a Energy Rebate on promotion and I can go on endlessly.
She is installing a Carbon tax that is not revenue Neutral and will suck more money from hard working people and the funds are going into to General revenues and Doubt any great benefit to the environment.
The liberal government policies are not benefiting Ontarians but seem to making people who should be prosperous ,poorer by nickling and diming them to death.
As a result you may make excuses for this government, people here are fed up and want change.
Insurance rates have reduced but not to people living in Brampton at all. A middle age driver in his 20's is paying 2000-3000 dollars a year with a clean record to drive his car while a person living in other provinces is likely paying half of that. The government has created a policy to benefit the insurance companies, with lower benefits and increasing insurance rates it seems.
The liberal government has dramatically increased the fees for driver stickers far greater then rate of inflation and has a new Clean Emission Test that pretty much does nothing to reduce emissions as cars that are polluting are passing but a new car with a computer problem has to do 100's of dollars of needless repairs to keep people like yourself happy about the world.
While the government has been collecting all of this money they have been wasting it in a dramatic fashion with billions of dollars of scandals since 2003 and seemingly endless stories such as spending 70 million dollars to create a pension plan that never came to fruition, spending well over 90% of a Energy Rebate on promotion and I can go on endlessly.
She is installing a Carbon tax that is not revenue Neutral and will suck more money from hard working people and the funds are going into to General revenues and Doubt any great benefit to the environment.
The liberal government policies are not benefiting Ontarians but seem to making people who should be prosperous ,poorer by nickling and diming them to death.
As a result you may make excuses for this government, people here are fed up and want change.
rbt
Senior Member
Yes, but you said Wynne was the problem, not Liberal policy. Since 2003 != Wynne. Why would you support another Liberal leader, who is not Wynne, and expect this to change? Frankly, I think Eves screwed the pooch on this one; Hydro One should have been fully outsourced at that time into 30 to 50 year Design + Build + Maintain contracts not unlike how newer LRTs/Hospitals/etc. are being managed.
Yep, this is an issue, and Wynne explicitly stated she would lower rates but didn't achieve it.
The new Clean Emission test is now free of charge to you; perhaps it should be eliminated or scaled back. The whole Drive Clean thing was implemented by Harris way back in '99 so perhaps it's best if the Conservatives modify the program to suit modern requirements.
Policy to increase sticker fees was put into place in 2011; so Liberal policy left over from McGuinty. I don't see how replacing Wynne while keeping the Liberals will change this type of policy.
Also "people like yourself"? Who am I?
"Since 2003", so again not really Wynne. Swapping out the Liberal leadership isn't going to fix issues that existed since 2003 (and likely before that too).
Yep. Excellent point. Federal Government at that time could have eliminated that overhead by co-operating on this program. I'm not sure who should take the bulk of the blame. The reason the program never came to fruition is the federal government suddenly changed its mind and decided to co-operate.
News fucked this one up. The budget quoted by media was the marketing budget for the program; it's 100% correct that the majority of the marketing budget was spent on marketing. The bit that wasn't represents staff overhead (like issuing staff pay-cheques).
Change in government will not fix this. Ontario has an obligation (demanded by the federal government) to follow through on ratified international treaties.
So would you see our policies move closer to those of Quebec (where poor live relatively well) or those of Alberta (where rich do well when industry does well; but poor always struggle)?
So since the subject of the thread is on how changing out Wynne for another leader will allow another Liberal majority to be elected (as per recent polls); which potential Ontario Liberal leader would you vote in favour of? Also, did you vote Liberal in the last provincial election?
In the interest of disclosure, my family has sent hundreds of thousands of dollars to fund the Ontario Conservative party over the last few decades and I have a cousins in small-town politics who have been recruited by the federal conservatives. That said, I dislike Brown, mostly due to interactions with him while he was a Barrie councillor.
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Videodrome
Senior Member
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/10/23/19-year-old-student-wins-niagara-pc-nomination.html
The PC's are a gift that keeps on giving.
The PC's are a gift that keeps on giving.
christiesplits
Senior Member
Incredible that he defeated the former MP and party president. The riding is in Ontario's "bible belt" and has the largest concentration of private Christian schools in Ontario. Sounds like he was able to round up the support of the pro-life, anti-SSM circles.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
Of course the favourite excuse is to blame the prior Government from over 13 years ago for most of the Liberals party issues 13+ years latter.
Wynne has adopted and carried forth the liberal legacy since she is elected and sat in cabinet and therefore is liable to the faults of the past of Dalton. Suggesting she cannot be faulted from things before is just a good way to excuse the Liberals in general.
I am sorry why can't the liberal Government move forth with a revenue neutral carbon tax like other countries and BC? Perhaps it is more concerned about taking more money from the citizens to fuel their fiscal incompetence then really doing anything to protect the environment. I am not against the environment but this seems to be a tax grab.
I do not support any liberal replacement for Wynne, her corrupt self and her party need to be thrown to the curb like Harper and his ilk.
Wynne has adopted and carried forth the liberal legacy since she is elected and sat in cabinet and therefore is liable to the faults of the past of Dalton. Suggesting she cannot be faulted from things before is just a good way to excuse the Liberals in general.
I am sorry why can't the liberal Government move forth with a revenue neutral carbon tax like other countries and BC? Perhaps it is more concerned about taking more money from the citizens to fuel their fiscal incompetence then really doing anything to protect the environment. I am not against the environment but this seems to be a tax grab.
I do not support any liberal replacement for Wynne, her corrupt self and her party need to be thrown to the curb like Harper and his ilk.
44 North
Senior Member
I'm wondering how true this one is, or what metric is being used for it and Wynne/Del Duca's continued use of the 'greatest expansion in history' claim. With regards to the same party, keep in mind that under McGuinty there was the promise of MoveOntario2020/GO2020. This had RER, or "SuperGO" as it was called. Not to mention massive expansions to the GO network (new lines, all day, 2-way, etc) - all of which was to be completed in 3yrs. This was promised before an election...and much of it quickly fell by the wayside or was altered.
Regardless, I would've thought the PC's (particularly with Bill Davis) in the 70s and early 80s saw "the greatest transit expansion in Cdn history". The seven GO lines we have today came from that era. Rapid transit plans aside, their vision for upgrades to the GO network were arguably better than the current RER proposal (and ahead of their time IMO). This wasn't a napkin doodle or empty election promise either; a lot of effort went into their plan of creating what were effectively subways bisecting the GTHA. Hard to believe that three decade ago a gov't was serious about electric, high-frequency subway-like trains on the GO network. One can argue about how feasible it actually was, but at the end of the day it was a proposal just like Wynne's.
As an aside, I'm wondering how many are interested in ousting Wynne for little other reason than they want a change for the sake of change. I'm actually interested in that. How different will it be, how will public perceptions change with a change in party, how will people react vis-a-vis similar blunders if it's the PCs or NDP in power?
rbt
Senior Member
Like all quotes of "greatest" or "best" it depends on how you measure it. Few of McGuinty's promises came with funding (either at the announcement or later during his terms).
Wynne's plan, which was not the largest vision, did have the largest funded budget associated to it. I'm not at all sure if that level of spending will be sustained to finish the project; especially if there is a change in governement.
I'm not sure about largest in terms of added capacity as we don't really know what Metrolinx will provide for rush capacity. I'm pretty sure the TTCs subway expansion during the 60's added more carrying capacity than 15-minute GO trains (on 5 lines) will provide.
Videodrome
Senior Member
http://www.cp24.com/news/brown-says...-in-byelection-not-a-party-backlash-1.3130755
Patrick Brown is an idiot...
Patrick Brown is an idiot...
Palma
Senior Member
perhaps she should stay then
Palma
Senior Member
you are coming to this realization now?
torontologist
Active Member
Further proof that much of the opposition to her leadership is due to her identity (female/gay/from Toronto), rather than her politics. The ball on Hydro rates started rolling long before she was Premier. I like her, and I'd be disappointed if she steps down. But hey, as long as it keeps a Patrick Brown government out of Queen's Park...
BurlOak
Senior Member
It has nothing to do with her identity.
As you state, it does have a lot to do with the terrible job the Liberals have done, which started before she became premier. The same way that Paul Martin was reduced to Minority and then opposition because of the corruptions of the Liberals before him.
As you state, it does have a lot to do with the terrible job the Liberals have done, which started before she became premier. The same way that Paul Martin was reduced to Minority and then opposition because of the corruptions of the Liberals before him.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
You can't ignore however that there is a certain contingent who despise her because she is a gay woman. You just have to see some of the really vile things people say about her online. Thankfully this appears to be a vast minority.