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That said, there has been a bit of shift on who pays, in so far as business taxes have been cut much more steeply than those for individuals and families; and non-tax revenues of gov't (user fees) are up faster than inflation.
Absolutely agreed, the "we pay too much tax" mantra is overplayed far too readily in the likes of the NatPost and TorSun newspapers. Even v. the US, when medicare is factored in, Canada does quite well, albeit it varies province to province and state to state.

What remains a valid argument, and always has been valid, is "what value are you getting for your tax?". Again, until recently (last few decades) Canada did very well. Like a lot of developed nations though, that has slipped. As to why is a good question, overall productivity (the bugbear being how you measure that) has gone down in many nations, contrary to the claims of "computers will revolutionize our standard of living". If 'productivity' is based on less people employed, then we're all in trouble. (And the fundamental definition is that per GDP)

But the bottom line is that Canada is far from being the "debtor nation" portrayed. It also depends on what Canada puts on the books, and other nations don't. Ontario's debt-burden has a lot 'on the books' that many US states don't due to bookkeeping tricks necessary due to "no deficit" legislation in many US states, much of which is ineffective and leads to unintended consequences.

One only has to view Donald Trump's election as to how easily stats are twisted and convoluted to say whatever the ideology demands of it.
 
Bayer you pretend to be a progressive who cares about people, but your ideal society is everyone should just shut up and pay more taxes to a government regardless if they are spending the money wisely or not and people are getting tired of that of the Ontario liberals for that.

The problem is that income taxes were higher in the past but overall cost of living was far cheaper.

Now income taxes are lower but things are more expensive and things that government does control like car insurance, fees and hydro rate are far far more expensive and these costs have gone up dramatically due to the fiscal competence of the Ontario liberal party.

Hydro costs gone up double to triple or more since Ontario Liberals Got Elected in 2003 due to their policies and have been made worse as a result of their policies.

Car Registration Tax has been doubled since Liberals got elected to over 120 dollars per year and count less other fees (must be nice to nickel and dime poor drivers trying to make 30,000 a year with those progressive taxes lol)

Health Insurance Taxes introduced.

Green Eco Fees introduced increasing costs for many products

HST put on many new products

CAP and Trade increasing taxes on heating and Gas Prices

Car Insurance rates the highest in the country while reducing coverage.

It seems you are simply making excuses for the liberals and are doing a very poor job at it.
 
It seems you are simply making excuses for the liberals and are doing a very poor job at it.
He has already stated that he didn't vote for Wynne. You sound like you read the Post and Sun and believe it so much you mime the mantra.

I suggest some OECD, IMF or other international stage studies.

Taxing Wages: Country note for Canada. The average worker in Canada faced a tax burden on labour income (tax wedge) of 31.1% in 2013 compared with the OECD average of 35.9%. Canada was ranked 26 of the 34 OECD member countries in this respect.
Taxing Wages: Country note for Canada - OECD
www.oecd.org/canada/taxingwages-canada.htm

Cost of living in Canada is 10.30% lower than in United States (aggregate data for all cities, rent is not taken into account). Rent in Canada is 27.94% lower than in United States (average data for all cities).
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Canada

upload_2017-4-29_18-14-55.png


http://www.calculconversion.com/sales-tax-calculator-hst-gst.html

The red-hot outrage over electricity prices in Ontario is a noisy attempt to shape a political narrative of discontent. It is misleading because the hype has a tenuous link to the facts.

Although actual electricity price increases over the past decade have been higher than the consumer price index, they are directly tied to a massive investment, on the order of $50 billion, for the renewal of Ontario’s aging electricity infrastructure.

If the debt obligation of such an investment were to come at zero cost, then pigs could fly as well. The relevant questions are: What did we get for this investment? And, given the costs are real, is there a way to give relief to customers most affected by the price increases?

We now have a cleaner electricity system. Removing coal, a cheap but dirty source of power from Ontario's supply mix, brings a positive environmental dividend, better air quality (no smog days), and a dramatic reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from electricity generation — now 80 per cent lower than in 2006. Reducing the health care costs of poor air quality is a separate but important part of the benefit calculus that is entirely ignored in this discussion.

We do not have any imminent threat of electricity supply shortages — recall the crisis in the sector around 2005. With a surplus supply capacity, the low-carbon electricity system can now help relieve the cost of reducing greenhouse gas emissions in other sectors of the Ontario economy such as transport.

The effects of the price increases in electricity is a tale of two cities: for rural customers, who lack access to cheaper resources, and small to medium enterprises, the economic burden is high compared to the average increase in the cost of electricity overall. There is a need for targeted adjustments to the prices the most vulnerable pay and the government’s targeted response for a subsidy to the rural and remote customers is reasonable.

The total electricity bill for Ontario consumers has increased at 3.2 per cent per year on average from $15.5 billion in 2006 to $20.5 billion in 2015 (adjusted for inflation), and the unit cost of electricity has increased from 10.1 cents to 14.3 cents per kilowatt hour. For a typical residential customer (single detached home consuming 750 kWh), the monthly electricity bill in Toronto is $142. Rather than an across-the-board price freeze for all customers — which would have been an extremely poor policy option — the government has chosen to stretch out the time for payment of the debt to reduce prices for all customers today. This shift of carrying the interest costs over a longer period puts a small burden on future beneficiaries of the current investment in the system. This slight price increase in the years ahead is not a sufficient basis for a call to arms given the government’s plan will not undermine existing contractual obligations or create poor signals for future investment in the sector.

And are the electricity prices in Ontario really all that high? Compare the monthly cost of $140 for a typical residential customer in Toronto to $233 in San Francisco, $226 in New York City, or $210 in Boston. The Ontario median cost at $130 is somewhat higher but not outrageous in comparison to other Canadian cities such as Charlottetown ($126), Halifax ($122), and Regina ($114). The cost of electricity in B.C., Quebec, and Manitoba is much lower — between $55 and $75 — but this not entirely relevant given the large amount of cheap hydroelectric production from generating stations built and paid for several decades ago in those provinces. There is no way for Ontario to produce enough inexpensive hydroelectric power to fulfill its needs.

What about prices in the future? Ontario’s long-term energy plan projects an increase below 2 per cent every year over the next 10 years. For a typical household, this translates into a monthly electricity bill rising from $167 today to $198 in 2026: an increase of $30 over 10 years.

Reliable electricity is an absolutely critical service for the entire household and underpins the basis of our prosperity. Without a robust and reliable supply of this essential service, you are practically back to the Stone Age. If public discourse is to be served well, sticking to the facts is crucial. Even more crucial is context.

Electricity costs have increased because a massive investment in the long-term reliability and stability of the power grid has been completed after a prolonged period of underinvestment and ‘rate freezes’ in the electricity sector through the 1990s, which culminated in a major supply crisis in 2005. One key lesson from the Ontario experience, relevant for other provinces, is this: decarbonization of the economy will come at some cost. Ontario’s electricity sector is Exhibit A for the path to a lower-carbon economy.

Jatin Nathwani is a professor and Ontario Research Chair on Public Policy for Sustainable Energy at the University of Waterloo.

http://tvo.org/article/current-affa...e-not-justified-on-ontario-electricity-prices

I happen to wish Wynne to step down, not due to any of the reasons some have listed, but due to issues I have with her lack of ability to move this province forward on progressive issues. .And I'm petrified of the absolute mess the alternative parties have for leaders, let alone lack of talent in their parties.

What Ontario needs is a new face of leadership and hope, and that's in the (holding my nose) present Liberal Party of Ontario.
 

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Good luck. I doubt Brown will offer much of anything.
 
No but it won't help either. We need to stop crying poor. Toronto is weslthy but we misspend on vanity projects and then cry poor saying we don't have enough to find needed projects.

Wrong finding priorities. Fund the needs first then find the wants and nice to haves.
 
Lets see if the reaction from the Left will be anything close to what it was for Rob Ford's cuts.


Ontario cuts funding for Toronto Public Library
Chief librarian says loss of $1.4 million over this year and next “cannot be absorbed and there will be service impacts.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_h...-cuts-funding-for-toronto-public-library.html

From twitter, there is a sense of disappointment in less funding for TPL. I suspect a lot of people didn't know the province even funded libraries in Toronto.

Good luck. I doubt Brown will offer much of anything.

Especially not for social housing which is Tory's ask. I mean, did PC wanted to pay for them when JoTo was party leader? Nope.

AoD
 
She's playing with fire. I think the gamble of scoring points on the back of Toronto is a dangerous strategy. She risk antagonizing some of her own base in regards to the Toronto libraries cuts, which could open the door to the NDP.
 
She's playing with fire. I think the gamble of scoring points on the back of Toronto is a dangerous strategy. She risk antagonizing some of her own base in regards to the Toronto libraries cuts, which could open the door to the NDP.
She has already done that by disallowing tolls, thereby depriving us of a useful revenue tool. What is the point of giving Toronto more taxation powers if the province can still prevent their use?
 
She has already done that by disallowing tolls, thereby depriving us of a useful revenue tool. What is the point of giving Toronto more taxation powers if the province can still prevent their use?

Except that every other party stood up against the tolls, so there's no one toll advocates can turn to if they don't like that decision. Cutting services like libraries though sounds like something the NDP would stand pretty strongly against, and that's where the danger will come to the Liberals in terms of losing the support of their base in Toronto.
 
Except that every other party stood up against the tolls, so there's no one toll advocates can turn to if they don't like that decision. Cutting services like libraries though sounds like something the NDP would stand pretty strongly against, and that's where the danger will come to the Liberals in terms of losing the support of their base in Toronto.

I don't think people will necessarily vote NDP because the Liberals cut library funding for TO and what they would do in their place - the danger for them is more these little things tick their supporters off enough to make them stay home.

AoD
 
Except that every other party stood up against the tolls, so there's no one toll advocates can turn to if they don't like that decision. Cutting services like libraries though sounds like something the NDP would stand pretty strongly against, and that's where the danger will come to the Liberals in terms of losing the support of their base in Toronto.

At least the NDP said they would reintroduced the TTC subsidy that was cut by the PC and that the Liberals never wanted to bring back. That's fair.
 

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