[salsa]

I've always wonder when this will actually drive transit investment. How bad does traffic congestion and subway crowding have to get before governments are actually compelled to invest in earnest?

They're actually investing quite a bit already. It's just that much of it is going to the wrong places at the wrong time.

 

[steveintoronto]

They're actually investing quite a bit already. It's just that much of it is going to the wrong places at the wrong time.

Like Palaces to Park Pontiacs...

 

[innsertnamehere]

Again, Markham will get a subway with the Yonge subway extension.

The Pickering comment was obviously ridiculous.

 

[OneCity]

Again, Markham will get a subway with the Yonge subway extension.

The Pickering comment was obviously ridiculous.

Ford was just taking the poltical opportunity to acknowledge and gesture Durham residents while making his nuclear announcement.

Obviously a Pickering connection is not happening on our lives. But I wouldn't doubt that a connected, grade seperated lube is built into Seaton lands when the airport us built many decades from now. But ya. It was nothing more than an acknowledgement as we catch up elsewhere

 

[steveintoronto]

Ford was just taking the poltical opportunity to acknowledge and gesture Durham residents while making his nuclear announcement.

Obviously a Pickering connection is not happening on our lives. But I wouldn't doubt that a connected, grade seperated lube is built into Seaton lands when the airport us built many decades from now. But ya. It was nothing more than an acknowledgement as we catch up elsewhere

So in other words, ignore what Ford says, since it's meaningless?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I've always wonder when this will actually drive transit investment. How bad does traffic congestion and subway crowding have to get before governments are actually compelled to invest in earnest?

I've driven at least 10,000 kms through the GTA this year. The way I see it, traffic can get a lot worse before we're "forced" to invest in transit. The congestion we see today isn't anything compared to what it could be 30 years from now, when the GTA could be 50% larger. Not building transit is always an option.

 

[Filip]

I've already accepted Toronto has the worst transit and congestion out of really anywhere I've been outside of India - which is telling.

It's a confluence of factors:

1) A transit system that is tailored to a small city
2) A street grid that is so inefficient you'd probably crash traffic simulation software trying to solve it
3) Too many traffic lights (tied into point 2 above)
4) Inefficient land use
5) Subways that almost entirely go through small single family home neighbourhoods
7) Subways that only travel under a street vs. fanning out from the core - there are other directions except north/south and east/west to the planners that be...
6) Obsession with surface transit interacting with traffic instead of figuring out ways of making sure neither ever touch

 

[steveintoronto]

It's a confluence of factors: [...]

And there's a massive one only rarely noted: The political structure of three or more levels of government. In the US, that's sometimes overcome, albeit it results in inefficient delivery per cost in many cases.

Until the Municipal Act and its derivatives, like the City of Toronto Act, etc, are radically overhauled (which may take a change in the Constitution, God help us all), I can't see the pragmatism in politics necessary to work with what we have now.

 

[pman]

I've already accepted Toronto has the worst transit and congestion out of really anywhere I've been outside of India - which is telling.

It's a confluence of factors:

1) A transit system that is tailored to a small city
2) A street grid that is so inefficient you'd probably crash traffic simulation software trying to solve it
3) Too many traffic lights (tied into point 2 above)
4) Inefficient land use
5) Subways that almost entirely go through small single family home neighbourhoods
7) Subways that only travel under a street vs. fanning out from the core - there are other directions except north/south and east/west to the planners that be...
6) Obsession with surface transit interacting with traffic instead of figuring out ways of making sure neither ever touch

You’re absolutely right. It’s as if our entire political class is completely ignorant of how successful cities move people.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

7) Subways that only travel under a street vs. fanning out from the core - there are other directions except north/south and east/west to the planners that be...

I never understood why we can't build subways or LRT's that go diagonal

 

[M II A II R II K]

The biggest fear is that his pie in the sky proposals will supplant legitimate plans in the works and nothing will end up being built. Again

 

[raptor]

The biggest fear is that his pie in the sky proposals will supplant legitimate plans in the works and nothing will end up being built. Again

To be completely honest, that's been the liberal philosophy as well

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

To be completely honest, that's been the liberal philosophy as well

That's what happens when transit is used to basically buy votes.

AoD

 

[JSF-1]

And there's a massive one only rarely noted: The political structure of three or more levels of government. In the US, that's sometimes overcome, albeit it results in inefficient delivery per cost in many cases.

Until the Municipal Act and its derivatives, like the City of Toronto Act, etc, are radically overhauled (which may take a change in the Constitution, God help us all), I can't see the pragmatism in politics necessary to work with what we have now.

Politics is a big factor; for example Toronto is a single tier city that pretty much can only do what the Province lets it do. The only place I can think of as similar (at least in North America) is NYC which is also a single tier city and quite possible the only Single Tier in the entire USA without "Home Rule". There's an obvious trend I've seen and it is Single-Tier cities (at least large ones) tend to be the worst at getting things done. The cities that seem best at doing things all have far more power than Toronto does and have a split between who deals with local level issues,and who deals with City wide issues. Examples include London and its 32 Boroughs , Tokyo and its 23 Special Wards (among other things) , L.A. and its 88 Towns and Cities, Berlin and its 12 Boroughs, Pre-Amalgamation Toronto. with its 5 Cities and Boroughs. However at the same time all of them (except Toronto) have far more power. London and LA are county's, Tokyo is also a prefecture, and Berlin is also a State etc.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I never understood why we can't build subways or LRT's that go diagonal

Grids are almost always more efficient for moving people.

Anyways I really struggle to think of any predominantly diagonal transit alignments that would make sense for Toronto. Did you have anything specific in mind?