[Midtown Urbanist]

The issue is that Scarborough Town Centre still needs to be connected to the subway system somehow.

We could upgrade the train to Mark III (same as Vancouver SkyTrain) but that would be upsetting to people.

 

[Cobra]

We could upgrade the train to Mark III (same as Vancouver SkyTrain) but that would be upsetting to people.

The Eglinton-Scarborough crosstown was widely accepted. I don't believe that technology matters that much, but more so, being connected fully to the main TTC system, which the crosstown would have accomplished

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

The Eglinton-Scarborough crosstown was widely accepted. I don't believe that technology matters that much, but more so, being connected fully to the main TTC system, which the crosstown would have accomplished

That would require someone with brains in control of the planning/political process.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I don't know how many times people will say this but you cannot simply use Mark IIIs without some major track changes.

Throw enough money at it and we can do it.

Thanks to the inflated budget of the Scarborough Subway, we have at least $3 billion to work with.

 

[Rainforest]

From another thread:

I don't mind at all if DRL opens 2 or 3 years after YN. There would be a number of ways to manage the capacity for such a period.

The problem is that they won't have funding for 3 subways. Even if they set aside $5 billion and get the same federal amount, they will have to spend ~ 4 billion on SSE and the remaining 6 billion will fund either DRL or YN but not both. If YN wins, the DRL will have to wait at least 4 years, possibly more.

Like what ways, exactly? They can't even manage the capacity now without it turning into a gongshow. Don't tell me ATC is going to resolve the issue, because the stations can't even handle the loads now.

AoD

In the particular scenario I was responding to: DRL is firmly in construction when YN opens, and opens within 3 years after YN; I would take the following steps in the interim:

A) Limit the number of trains going to Richmond Hill in the weekday morning rush. Only 1 in 3, or 1 in 4, trains would go there, the rest would turn back at Steeles or at Eglinton.

B) Introduce a surcharge ($1 or $1.5) for boarding at any of the 3 Yonge stations north of Steeles (weekday morning rush only, say 7 to 9 am).

C) If technically possible, add 2 southbound morning GO trains from RH to Union, and 2 or 3 northbound evening trains; and set a discounted fare between RH and Union.

Once DRL opens, all those temporary steps will be undone. There will be more trains to RH, flat TTC fare at all subway stations, and regular GO fare.

That's not ideal and will make some people grumpy, but at the end everyone will get what they need most. York Region will get its coveted subway, and full planned service / flat fare 3 years later. Torontonians will feel a bit squeezed for 3 years, but will get DRL at the end.

Now if we end up with YN in service, but DRL still in the wishful thinking phase, that's a different kettle of fish. Honestly I wouldn't know how to manage that situation.

 

[OneCity]

That would require someone with brains in control of the planning/political process.

And run the risk of Doug pointing out his brother supported similar during his tenure? The politics wont allow for it. Anything a Ford supported or proposed previously will be shot down or modified inside this City. Provincially they will likely be open to adding stops or possibly an extension here but there is likely little appetite to go in reverse here as it would impact progress and impact the EA's on Eglinton East LRT, GO RER etc and the savings would likely not be all that significant once a new design is complete. I do agree it could and likely should have been this LRT crosstown connection or the subway on the RT corridor as a reasonable improvement and more cost effective solution from the get go. As @drum118 points out we are closing in on a couple hundred billion that is going to be spent when this all shakes out and we really do have to move on to other projects.

 

[OneCity]

So quite frankly this is a very exciting moment for me, read this response on asking about clarification from the Star reporter on whether or not he has some insight into the PC's not cancelling RER.....

"
Hi Reece,



Thanks for writing. The story was based not only on the published platform, but some interviews I did with the PCs, who spoke to me not for quotation but for the purposes of clarifying their platform. They did indeed tell me they intended to continue the RER program, including electrification. I realize though I maybe could have made my sources in the piece clearer. I'll keep that in mind next time.

Ben Spurr
Transportation reporter
Toronto Star"

So there it is folks, RER is very very likely to be happening in all its glory!!!

The Conservatives have no room for upsetting anyone on the transit file. As soon as they show signs against supporting progress the ghost of Mike Harris will come out and end any hope immediately as transit is far too important right now. Far different climate we are in.

The Liberals are either going to take knee for a term and concede or make some huge transit promises shortly as they would need some separation from the Conservatives. I actually don't expect them to go out quietly.

 

[TOareaFan]

The fact that this thread has morphed so quickly to “Scarborough Subway Thread III (or is it IV)” should indicate what is gonna dominate the provincial election campaign.

 

[OneCity]

The fact that this thread has morphed so quickly to “Scarborough Subway Thread III (or is it IV)” should indicate what is gonna dominate the provincial election campaign.

I doubt that. The Province has far more extensive issues. Both Liberals and Cons will be direct and to the point on this topic especially when talking in Scarborough ridings. They'll both support it, confirm additional costs will be picked up and more importantly they are moving on. It will be more of a dominate factor in the City election and will continue until construction unless the Province uploads the subways from the City.

The Liberals need to deliver big on transit to deflect from their scandals and be above the Conservatives on the transit file. If they do take this route and want to be serious about holding power, their could be announcements that take the SSE out of the top of conversation of Toronto transit alone

 

[drum118]

The issue is that Scarborough Town Centre still needs to be connected to the subway system somehow.

We could upgrade the train to Mark III (same as Vancouver SkyTrain) but that would be upsetting to people.

No you can't since the existing tunnel at Ellesmere will not handle a Mark III. Look back the many pages for the SRT and you will see this issue. Anything other than the current Mark will require the rebuilding of the tunnel 100% as it was design so nothing other than a Mark could use this line. The line was originally design for streetcars, but the government of the day force TTC to build this system as a showcase to be sold around the world. It bomb big time and the government sold it for peanuts.

The LRT is what I have push since day one, but took another look at this plan sometime ago and moved to something along the SmartTrack idea. I would run a 3-5 car double deck EMU train from Malvern Town Centre to Union Station or the Airport with provision to connect to CP line for the GO Crosstown Line. This would offer a one seat ride to the city core in a quarter of the time under the subway extension or an LRT line.

 

[nfitz]

I don't know how many times people will say this but you cannot simply use Mark IIIs without some major track changes.

Which they priced out at $190 million when the TTC board approved this option in 2006 (with $170 million to purchase the vehicles themselves).

Meanwhile, if you look in the current budget, the cost to extend the life of the existing SRT and vehicles from 2015 to 2026 is $132 million, and the cost to demolish the SRT and all 6 station in 2026 and 2027 is another $123 million.

In addition the $3.3 billion for building 1 subway station and tunnel.

 

[BurlOak]

The Conservatives have no room for upsetting anyone on the transit file. As soon as they show signs against supporting progress the ghost of Mike Harris will come out and end any hope immediately as transit is far too important right now. Far different climate we are in.

The Liberals are either going to take knee for a term and concede or make some huge transit promises shortly as they would need some separation from the Conservatives. I actually don't expect them to go out quietly.

Last election it was high speed rail to Windsor.
Maybe this time it's high speed rail to North Bay.

 

[MisterF]

Which they priced out at $190 million when the TTC board approved this option in 2006 (with $170 million to purchase the vehicles themselves).

Meanwhile, if you look in the current budget, the cost to extend the life of the existing SRT and vehicles from 2015 to 2026 is $132 million, and the cost to demolish the SRT and all 6 station in 2026 and 2027 is another $123 million.

In addition the $3.3 billion for building 1 subway station and tunnel.

Yup, the original plan to retrofit the line to be able to run modern ICTS trains would have been a fraction of the cost of replacing it with a subway (literally 1/10 of the cost). The fact that this very sensible and cheap option fell victim to petty politics says a lot about transit planning in this city.

 

[salsa]

Op-ed by Jennifer Keesmaat


Transit decisions must remain local, former city planner says

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/con...st-remain-local-former-city-planner-says.html

 

[BurlOak]

Yup, the original plan to retrofit the line to be able to run modern ICTS trains would have been a fraction of the cost of replacing it with a subway (literally 1/10 of the cost). The fact that this very sensible and cheap option fell victim to petty politics says a lot about transit planning in this city.

The less talked about David Miller political transit plan.