[gweed123]

I would - just because economically it is more symbiotic with Toronto, and it will probably be part of the commutershed of the central city in the future.

AoD

It is certainly symbiotic, but I think that KWC still sees itself as an adjacent metro region to the GTA, and not really part of it. Personally, I think the boundaries for the new Province should be more or less the outer boundary of the Greenbelt (though I'd remove northern Durham Region and the escarpment area north of Caledon):

http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/AssetFactory.aspx?did=17124

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That would be a big mistake. Then you would have all those awful suburbs setting he agenda instead of downtown, which is the point. You would just have the same problem again on a smaller scale.

You couldn't avoid that - you wouldn't even avoid in with a scenario based on the current City of Toronto boundaries - and that is already a case of the bare minimum.

It is certainly symbiotic, but I think that KWC still sees itself as an adjacent metro region to the GTA, and not really part of it. Personally, I think the boundaries for the new Province should be more or less the outer boundary of the Greenbelt (though I'd remove northern Durham Region and the escarpment area north of Caledon):

http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/AssetFactory.aspx?did=17124

It can see itself as whatever (just like Hamilton does even after all these years) - but that's just the reality of this metroplex. My simplified take is - if you intend to run GO Transit to it, it should be part of this new political entity.

AoD

 

[gweed123]

My fear is that the seccession idea - which is out of the blue and not yet socialised with the electorate, especially in the suburbs - may backfire and become Keesmaat's undoing in the mayoral race. Whatever its merits, it's radical in many "average" peoples' eyes. The average voter will be scared off.

JK needs to distance herself from a "just not ready" backlash. Don't scare the voters, wait and sell the idea once you are elected.

- Paul

I think people view "secession" at the Provincial level differently than they do at the national level. This isn't a Quebec separatist movement, where the result would be no longer being Canadian.

Also, with a GTA-wide Provincial government, there would no longer be a need for the megacity of Toronto.

 

[UD2]

But what most DT NDP ridings don't realize is that the suburbs of Toronto are extremely happy with these changes.

With an over whelming number of councillors concentrated in the core, the suburbs were not getting any attention. This makes it better for anyone who lives north of Lawrence. So no I don't think Toronto is going to be it's own province.

But is it fair for those who live downtown? absolutely not. Time to move to the burbs!

 

[Leo_Chan]

My fear is that the seccession idea - which is out of the blue and not yet socialised with the electorate, especially in the suburbs - may backfire and become Keesmaat's undoing in the mayoral race. Whatever its merits, it's radical in many "average" peoples' eyes. The average voter will be scared off.

JK needs to distance herself from a "just not ready" backlash. Don't scare the voters, wait and sell the idea once you are elected.

- Paul

She said that she will not be pushing for secession if she becomes mayor, as seen in this interview.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Make a guess on what "priority" will get Doug Ford's attention for commuting to work?

From link:

If only there was a subway station next to Queen's Park? Only if there's a photo op in doing so for him.

Doug even has a "restricted" entrance tunnel from Queen's Park Station to Queen's Park itself, to bypass the angry unclean mobs. Except that he would still have to face a gauntlet of "well wishers" at the station... and "unfortunately" he'll have to (how low would he go) WALK.

From link.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Doug take the subway? good joke. He parks his Escalade in the back parking lot of Queens Park every morning. He would never dare wallow with the masses on the subway.

 

[muller877]

Doug take the subway? good joke. He parks his Escalade in the back parking lot of Queens Park every morning. He would never dare swallow with the masses on the subway.

Did Kathleen Wynne or Dalton McGuinty take transit to Queens Park?

How many MPP's did? I only know of one (MPP from Brant taking the GO in for the first day)

 

[Avenue]

Did Kathleen Wynne or Dalton McGuinty take transit to Queens Park?

Completely irrelevant since Wynne never whined about her drive taking too long.

 

[Towered]

You couldn't avoid that - you wouldn't even avoid in with a scenario based on the current City of Toronto boundaries - and that is already a case of the bare minimum.



It can see itself as whatever (just like Hamilton does even after all these years) - but that's just the reality of this metroplex. My simplified take is - if you intend to run GO Transit to it, it should be part of this new political entity.

AoD

I disagree. The 416 should become a special administrative region - still technically part of Ontario, but with its own unique setup and political powers, one in which the federal government has as equal a say as the Ontario government.

 

[rbt]

The 416 should become a special administrative region ... one in which the federal government has as equal a say as the Ontario government.

I really don't want the equivalent of the National Capital Commission stomping around Toronto with any kind of authority. Rural Ontarians disagree with how Toronto handles things but they are usually willing to acknowledge they depend on the city and generally wish it to succeed.

Over the last 20 years the ministers in charge of the Ottawa NCC file have been from Montreal, Montreal, Gatineau (yay! a local), Saskatchewan, Vancouver, Thunder Bay, Montreal, Quebec City, and Hamilton.

I don't think additional federal control would be an improvement.

 

[steveintoronto]

I really don't want the equivalent of the National Capital Commission stomping around Toronto with any kind of authority.

lol...you just caught me reading up on the background of the NCC, and the predecessor agencies it was founded upon. I won't go into legal details, I still haven't fully grasped the legal nuances (Constitutional actually, from before the repatriation of the Constitution and various Acts built on that) but be assured, any kind of special status for Toronto under Ontario legislation is not going to happen under the present yoke of uber-authority. As the Law now stands, Ontario has to *grant* devolution. Toronto has zero authority to determine anything in absolute, save for appealing impositions that violate Charter rights, something that has happened in this instance, and grounds to apply for an injunction until a case can be heard.

The chances are great that Ford et al will botch this term so badly that things are softened up for a new approach, one that's accepted internationally as a template. A lot depends on the mentality of suburbanites, not exactly prone to informing themselves on such matters. "Buck a beer" and "cheap gas" gets their attention. Other cities relate, even from other provinces (Calgary et al), but suburbanites? In general, no...

Meantime:

Supreme Court of Canada

Munro v. National Capital Commission, [1966] S.C.R. 663

Date: 1966-06-28
[...]
The subject matter of the National Capital Act is the establishment of a region consisting of the seat of the Government of Canada and the defined surrounding area which are formed into a unit to be known as the National Capital Region which is to be developed, conserved and improved "in order that the nature and character of the seat of the Government of Canada may be in accordance with its national significance". That subject matter is not referred to in either s. 91 or s. 92 of the British North America Act. Consequently, the sole power rests with Parliament under the preliminary words of s. 91, relative to "laws for the peace, order and good government of Canada". It was therefore within the powers of Parliament to authorize the Commission, for the attainment of its objects and purposes as defined in the Act, to make the expropriation of the lands of the appellant.
[...]

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/6893/index.do

There's a couple of other interesting cases, which in sum, can't be cited as precedents, but can and most likely will in part if the Ford Ultimatum is tested in court.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Did Kathleen Wynne or Dalton McGuinty take transit to Queens Park?
How many MPP's did? I only know of one (MPP from Brant taking the GO in for the first day)

He didn’t even take transit as a councillor - and got h*ck all to do back then.

AoD

 

[innsertnamehere]

Remember that City Councillors get free metropasses as well - it costs them literally nothing to take the TTC.

The one nice thing about Tory is that he is known to take the TTC from his condo at St George station down to City hall. He's also "interesting" in the sense that he lives in a condo and not a house, which is I beleive a new thing for a mayor, at least recently. Mind you, his condo is worth more than the vast majority of houses in the city.. but it's a condo.

 

[Filip]

Remember that City Councillors get free metropasses as well - it costs them literally nothing to take the TTC.

The one nice thing about Tory is that he is known to take the TTC from his condo at St George station down to City hall. He's also "interesting" in the sense that he lives in a condo and not a house, which is I beleive a new thing for a mayor, at least recently. Mind you, his condo is worth more than the vast majority of houses in the city.. but it's a condo.

Ya no.

Taking the subway 4 stops to City Hall makes sense - taking transit from the transit deserts of Etobicoke does not. Especially when you're premier and have the resources not to.

I do not nearly have the resources of the Ford family, but I drive whenever I bloody can into the city - because transit sucks. Not much of a comparison to a gentleman who owns a multi-million dollar condo above one of the busiest subway interchanges in the country, and a 10 min ride down to the office.